Ski Touring Above Silver Lake and Carson Pass, 5/11- 5/14

[Love the Sierra]

Ian, Can Bearzy pull for mushing? Do you mean to get a sled and a team or just skijoring?

[Harlen]

Aura wonders how cgunderson managed to run over his own thumb. We wondered too, but now that we know that he spends approximately half his waking hours swimming, we reckon that he is a super flexible, "gumby" sort of person, so he can even run over his own arse if he needs to. Maybe Cameron is a better skier than he lets on, and he makes very sharp turns?

Love the Sierra / Aura also asks about the ski gear, and I too have been wanting Gogd to clarify something. Earlier on in this post he wrote the following:

One reason I never stepped up to Rondonée or tech bindings is because of the inherent risk of injury. One of the advantages of 3-pins is they very rarely cause a serious injury, due to the nature of the equipment design. They are also less susceptible to equipment failure and easier to effect a field repair, should that become necessary. I still use the Voile 3 pin mountaineer binding, coupled to Scott Excursion duck bill plastic boots...

My burning question (as I am still hobbling on my broken ankle), is why is 3-pin a safer option? I broke my ankle free-heel skiing on tech bindings, which I know was stupid, but isn't it effectively the same physical setup Ed? I mean, in that either way, the toe is locked in, and the ski able to rotate quite a ways before your ankle gets the twist? Someone please explain.

[Gogd]

I too have been wanting Gogd to clarify something. Earlier on in this post he wrote the following:

One reason I never stepped up to Rondonée or tech bindings is because of the inherent risk of injury.

My burning question (as I am still hobbling on my broken ankle), is why is 3-pin a safer option? I broke my ankle free-heel skiing on tech bindings, which know was stupid, but isn't it effectively the same physical setup Ed? I mean, in that either way, the toe is locked in, and the ski able to rotate quite a ways before your ankle gets the twist? Someone please explain.

@Harlen ,
I cannot put an exact explanation on why 3-P is safer, but have some theories. That said, the research compared the injury rate of skiers using different equipment under different circumstances. The general conclusion is 3-P has a lower likelihood of injury than all other boot/binding/ski technologies on every type terrain class. So I base my statement solely on the statistics. But If one wishes to read between the lines, there are several possible explanations.

• The boots used with Rondonée and tech bindings have little to no torsional twist, thus this force is more readily transferred up into the ankle and leg.
• The boots used with Rondonée and tech bindings often have a "walk" mode, allowing pivot in the ankle, and a "downhill" mode where the ankle pivot is locked or restricted. The locked, downhill mode can result in transmitting more force in that axis up into the ankle and leg in certain situations.
• The dimensional geometry of 3-P bindings preclude the skier from getting into the really gonzo stuff, because the binding interferes with setting your edges on steep slopes.
• Tech and Rondonée instill a greater sense of confidence, encouraging some skiers to attempt terrain beyond their ability.
• The mechanics of 3-P telemark skiing require more highly refined techniques. Alpine and AT skiing are to 3-P telemarking what modern dance is to classical ballet. The 3-P skier is compelled to stay more focused on execution, therefore less likely to screw up. Furthermore the technical demands of 3-P skiing reduce the likelihood of underprepared skiers from even considering getting onto the dance floor.

The research did specifically conclude tech bindings are less safe on piste than alpine bindings, thus discouraged skiing with tech bindings at resorts, and suggested limiting that activity for when practicing in preparation for BC skiing.

Ed

[Gogd]

Hi,
So the @ feature still doesn’t work! Glad that this thread has turned into gear talk

Ed, what kind of skis do you use?
How can you get crampons on your ski boots? I just returned a pair of Scarpa t4’s since they were way too stiff for me.

@ Love the Sierra ,
I addressed the ski equipment topic with two posts in your Thanksgiving 2022 ski TR post: https://www.highsierratopix.com/communi ... 66#p176066 and https://www.highsierratopix.com/communi ... 74#p176074.
I'll get to the crampon issue below.

Boot stiffness
If the T-4s are a bit much for you, consider getting leather touring XC boots. My Scott boots suffice me for most trips, however if on trips with long walks to reach the snow (e.g. late spring up HWY 120, Shepherd's and Sawmill Passes) I may opt for the Asolo/Scarpa boot I mention in the links, or even a pair of approach walking shoes to reach the snow. The Asolo/Scarpa boot is torsionally stiff enough for most terrain and walks like an old-school, full grain leather hiking boot, but also comfy like a slipper.

asolo tele touring boots.jpg

Pairing crampons to boots
I own several sets of crampons: an aluminum pair fitted for my duckbill boots; a steel pair sized for my plastic mountaineering boots; and another steel pair for my summer hiking boots. I imagine I could adjust a crampon to work on different boots, however, only the aluminum pair has a binding system compatible with all of my boots. Furthermore I tighten the @#%$$! out of the bolts, and know that torqueing and un-torqueing bolts can weaken them, and that bolts are a common failure point on crampons. Therefore I prefer fitting a crampon to a specific boot, and then leaving the bolts alone.

Ed

[Love the Sierra]

Ed,
Thank you so much for your patiently for me to that earlier post. The truth is, (Now you will laugh at my ignorance.) I had not understood almost any of what you wrote about the skis so I did not remember it. I only remembered the boots since that was something I understood. I also remember reading it and thinking “Ah oh, that is WAY, past what I can do. Those skis sound scary.)
However, this summer, I began attacking the task of getting new boots to replace my Fischer BCX which are shot. Along the way, I began to learn about skis. Then I began to think “Gee, maybe if I had wider, heavier skis, I. Old ditch snow shoes and carry my pack.” Then, I dove into the confusing world of skis. Several hours of reading later, I decided that this coming season, I will rent several different pairs from Mammoth Mountaineering and see if a carry a pack and control them. Also, if I have the strength to go any decent distance with a much heavier set up.
Guess what? I just reread your post and it makes total sense to me! WOW! Three pins on an AT ski is a genius idea!!! I thought the cable bindings will give me more control on the downhill, so I am also going to try those. I will not get the permanent cables, I do not want to give up my kick and glide. However, the ones that can go on and off looked interesting. Skins on, cables off. Skins off, cables on.
I know I should do the miserable deed and spend time at a resort and learn downhill skills. It would just be SO MISERABLE and my time in the Sierra is always too short that I just continue to side step, kick turn or walk down steeper areas.

[Harlen]

Gogd wrote back:

@Harlen ,
I cannot put an exact explanation on why 3-P is safer, but have some theories. That said, the research compared the injury rate of skiers using different equipment under different circumstances. The general conclusion is 3-P has a lower likelihood of injury than all other boot/binding/ski technologies on every type terrain class. So I base my statement solely on the statistics. But If one wishes to read between the lines, there are several possible explanations.
The boots used with Rondonée and tech bindings have little to no torsional twist, thus this force is more readily transferred up into the ankle and leg...

Thanks for that Ed. The boots point you make about the lack of torsional twist is a good one, and may go a ways toward explaining the relative safety of 3-pin. I got a great set of skis with 3 pin bindings via our Paul, and love them for their simplicity compared to the tech bindings. I will consider using that gear for remote trips.
Regarding the old leather boots, I too love them, but both of my old pairs have delam. issues, and the best pair has a busted duckbill, which I am struggling to jury-rig. Good luck to you Aura, in your quest for fun on skis-- I'm in the same boat. Ian.

[Gogd]

Regarding the old leather boots, I too love them, but both of my old pairs have delam. issues, and the best pair has a busted duckbill, which I am struggling to jury-rig.

I got my leather duckbills with delaminating vibram soles resoled two years ago, by my local shoe and luggage repair shop. Good luck!

Ed

[sgodgreeneyed]

What a good spot, love seeing those ice