Late-July Non-Lethal Route Inquiry--Help!

[jrad]

jrad, not to be a spoiler, but the route you describe is a fine route, but not one for anyone with "little off-trail" experience, no matter how fit they are and how many miles they can do on trails. Plus, that route will have SIGNIFICANT snow on all the passes.

This year it is wise to be prepared to simply bail out and return the same route you entered if you run into dangerous conditions.

Wandering Daisy - I'd defer to your experience (6500 posts!!!), though I did the Tully/Big Horn/Mott Lake X-C route once and was one of my least favorite routes (not sure why) ... but I would add that in my experience late snow generally makes X-C passes a lot easier and more fun - in Summer, not Spring or Winter, of course. The X-C passes I mentioned are not too demanding in dry conditions and I am pretty sure, by late July at least, they would be fine. If there is a cornice at Hopkins, that might be a problem but with good trail alternatives (McGee Pass, etc.). With snow, Bunny Lake Pass could be a LOT easier going UP and, if coming back down after a visit to Lake Dorothy area it would be a big, fun snow slide [A note: I have had the most fun on X-C and high elevation trail passes in late Spring into Summer with lots of snow. IF the snow is right consistency, of course. Icy hard snow any time of year can be dangerous w/o axe or crampons. But afternoon snow slides down hundreds or thousands of feet off a pass can be amazing fun and save so much effort (wet pants, though).]

Anyway, plans have 2-4 more weeks to formulate. A lot can happen with coming accelerated melt.

And there are alternatives further South, of course.

- The High Sierra Trail is a big consideration with looping options of all sorts ... into Kern Canyon? Up Soda or Rattlesnake Canyon? Back via Sawtooth/Glacier or Franklin/Timber Gap.
- Mineral King has been a mainstay for me for decades: Over Sawtooth looping back via Franklin or maybe Sawtooth trail/Glacier Pass over to Black Rock and loops back via Franklin or Crystal Pass (a tricky/sketchy X-C pass I love but suggest with caution, wet or dry).

QUESTIONS: how many miles per day average is desired here? How many lay-over days desired? How far is it for you to Mammoth area (is Eastern Sierra not an option)?

MORE NOTES: It sounds like Isaac/friend are in at least as good a condition as I ever was and I'm now 76 and would not hesitate to any part of the trip I suggested ... in a month or so anyway. So "little off-trail experience" means little to me and I've already commented enough on snow situation vis-a-vis doing passes (crossing on or above lakes? THAT is a whole other, potentially lethal matter!). BUT if doing much X-C, I'd suggest serious boots, not cross-trainers! That's maybe a barrier to some folks. I almost 100% wear serious boots (ankle support/traction), not OLD school serious like 3 pounds each but real boots (current favorites: cheap Timberland (1.1 pound each) .

FINAL NOTE: a lot of X-C hiking, usually slower, can be a lot easier than trail use where trails are degraded anyway. Of course there have been times I've almost wept with relief to finally get back on trail. But the (admittedly maximal) route I suggested has mostly easy X-C terrain. Hardly any long slogs up loose talus and such. Nice open Basin country.

[Wandering Daisy]

Snow is "fun" when you are experienced. I have done Bunny Pass and it is steep enough that I hesitate to consider it safe for snow-newbies early season. If the snow is sloppy and melting over talus, it is dangerous for even the experienced. And if the snow has just melted and the underlying already unstable scree is saturate, the entire slope can fail. I encountered saturated slopes on the north side of Snow Tongue Pass and it scared the daylights out of me! Snow is tricky- seemingly easy but lots of hidden dangers if you are not well trained. A good percent of accidents in the Sierra are on snow. It changes conditions constantly. One minute you kick a good step, the next you hit hidden ice.

We do not know if the person asking the question has real mountaineering experience on snow. If they have not done much off-trail, I doubt they do. I was just being conservative.

[jrad]

I cannot argue with you really. Somebody should have (maybe has) written an entire book on the unexpected or hidden and potentially deadly hazards snow presents in the Sierra. Ones that come to my mind the most: steps/plunges through undermined snow at snow-rock junctions (an absolutely guaranteed situation) or scary plunges into deep holes mid-boulder-field or collapsing snow bridges or unexpected slides into rocks or lakes (my nightmare scenario) and such. Having dealt with tons of snow over 50 years now, I have only done one real winter Sierra backpacking trip (got really lucky with the weather - back when maximum forecast was 3 days). Otherwise I've dealt with the myriad non-winter situations possible with no injury at all. It for sure helps to have an experienced person along. But I never had such (so far I've usually been the experienced one when with others) and have never had a problem though one day crossing the Ionian Basin terrified me (end-of-October icy packed snow slope into open water lake w/o ice gear, a single misstep certainly my last - never did THAT again!). Common sense, caution, concentration are all required and CAN substitute initially for experience if alone. Actually I always felt safest when solo, lacking all distraction. But no guarantees.

[isaac]

thank you all for the invaluable routes and advice! many options here that were well off my radar. I'll keep an eye on Sentinel Hub to see what's viable over the coming weeks. At the very least, I'll be planning routes based on those offered above for future seasons.

[isaac]

And to address the questions as to snow experience above--I've traveled through Yosemite earlier this winter (before the heart of snowmageddon) and participated in a few Mt Baldy climbs afterwards, and STILL hesitate to undertake technical winter terrain in the Sierra. In fact, I'd prefer to avoid it altogether. Fear of dismemberment and death, combined with the weight of crampons and ice-axe, as well as my friend's complete lack of climbing experience, leave me willing to trudge across snowy trail and scrounge for a dry camp amid snow fields but extremely hesitant to try anything in excess of that. So I'd say if it can be done w/no more than MS, it's an option for the trip in question. Of course, that would require boots-on-ground the day of to really determine, so we're back to square one again, aren't we...?

[jrad]

Isaac - If you've never done the High Sierra Trail (HST), it is a classic and spectacular trail (inspired some of Ansel Adam's most famous photography) with options to truly get away from crowds as well if you wander off trail on the Chagoopa Plateau. BUT many trails are booking up solid already and road access is the worst ever in the history of the Sierra. The SEKI site has latest road info I think: https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/conditions.htm

There have never been this many closures. A lot of people seem to be pouring into alternative routes, putting a lot of pressure on Trail Heads that usually are more available.

I've been checking permit situation for myself and see the HST has some openings for online permits (always can try walk-up permit day-of but that is totally a risk for any kind of planning certainty): https://www.recreation.gov/permits/4458 ... 2023-07-20

There are sometimes permit work-arounds; for instance, I've several times not had a permit for Horseshoe Meadow main trail heads up above Lone Pine and have just used the "Trail Pass" entry (no quota at all!) - an extra 5 miles or so out of the way but allowing full access to everything the main trails get you to.

As for SNOW: I have never in 50 years taken ice or snow gear except snowshoes on 2 of my very first trips (end of May Sawtooth Pass/Kern River watershed area and snow shoes for crossing late June (!) frozen lakes in Ionian Basin (scary - NOT recommended)). So, if you think you might try hiking on snow (probably unavoidable this year), I would not take any kind of gear. I had a frightening experience in 1979 and bought an ice axe as soon as I got home ... NEVER took it on a trip since then; unused sitting in my closet. If snow is too icy, as it might be on routes above 10-12,000 feet but only on a tiny portion of your route (early morning if at all), there's almost always a way to walk around but usually a lot more sweat. Snow won't be that big a deal, I'd say. Stream crossing might be a big deal for the largest streams. So ask Topix here or contact ranger station on your way.

[wildhiker]

There are sometimes permit work-arounds; for instance, I've several times not had a permit for Horseshoe Meadow main trail heads up above Lone Pine and have just used the "Trail Pass" entry (no quota at all!) - an extra 5 miles or so out of the way but allowing full access to everything the main trails get you to.

Just a clarification... The Trail Pass permit on the Inyo NF only allows access to the Golden Trout Wilderness. To head north into Sequoia Park from the Horseshoe Meadows area, you need a permit for the Cottonwood Pass or Cottonwood Lakes (Army or New Army Passes) trailheads. Of course, those two have quotas.

-Phil

[isaac]

Thanks for info jrad-- I actually got ahold of the JMT Goddess Elizabeth Wenk herself, and she recommended a similar loop to yours, Phil: starting at Lodgepole, up over Silliman Pass, eastbound along Roaring River to Deadman Canyon, then south to the High Sierra Trial to make a loop of it. I may do an out and back to Cloud Canyon instead--an area which has always fascinated me that I've yet to see--but I'll make that call on the trail.

I've managed to snag a permit to Belle Canyon, and SEKI shows road closures above and below the one to Lodgepole, but Lodgepole TH seems to be accessible. I should be good to go, assuming the Sierra Gods see fit to abstain from any further natural disasters.

I'm thinking of hauling along microspikes, but am hoping that Silliman and Elizabeth passes won't require any more gear than that.
If you've any thoughts/advice on my loop, please don't hesitate to offer it!

[Zarka]

Harlen’s suggestion goes to some great places, but given your partners experience level, and the potential for ice and snow in passes, I would recommend you go from red mountain basin down Meadowbrook from devils punch bowl, then go up the Bench Valley trail south of Big maxon meadow. Another way in to the same places which I think is more beautiful is start at Wishon or Crown/Rancheria TH, hike to Woodchuck lake, go over crown pass to halfmoon lake, then you can choose either the trail to big maxon & then up to bench valley, or the trail to blackcap basin. The blackcsp basin trail is in better shape. Bench valley trail is a bit harder to follow in a couple places

[KT5519]

Isaac - The trip starting at Silliman Pass would indeed be a good one. The road from Three Rivers up to Lodgepole re-opened on July 1st, so you should not have any trouble getting up there if you are coming from the south. The SEKI trail conditions page reported that on 4th of July weekend Sugarloaf creek was running very fast; I also have a trip planned into that area in late July so am hoping for things to calm down a bit. If you do make it into Cloud Canyon, that is a beautiful area and well worth exploring. The views of the Whaleback from Big Wet Meadow are incredible. Brewer Creek can be tricky in high water. I am planning on a long day hike next weekend and am looking at heading up that Lodgepole trail; I'm curious to see how Silliman Creek looks, as well as the snow on Silliman Pass if I have enough time and energy to make it there. I'll report back on the trip conditions thread with what I find. Whatever route you choose (HST or Cloud out and back) have a great trip!
- Kris