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I have been a life time free standing tent in the summertime Sierra kind of guy, until 2018. My reasons for preferring a free standing tent are the usual given. A combination of wearing out another tent, the desire to go lighter with my advancing age, had me switching to a dyneema pyramid tarp. I have used Black Diamond pyramid tarps for decades when snow camping. It did not occur to me they would be a great warm season option, too.
Addressing miscellaneous concerns:
Alpine terrain. I usually camp at or above tree line. The only issue with my tarp is it is a very large 2P footprint. I have learned to alter the setup to conform to what spot I choose to camp.
Stakes. I bring them, but often resort to rocks to hold fast my guy lines when stakes cannot work. Large rocks often are more bomber than stakes in rough weather. @ Wandering Daisy: do consider replacing one large rock with several medium rocks, placing the anchor rock at the bottom rear of the pile.
Condensation. Condensation in a single wall shelter is not an issue, as long as you have enough head, foot and side clearance. If you rig your tarp so it clears the ground by a couple of inches, and leave whatever vents open, condensation is no worse than trad double wall tents. One way to reduce condensation issues is hanging a candle 18" beneath a high vent. The heat will set up a convection draft that will evacuate air through that vent while drawing in (presumably) drier air to take its place.
Mast pole. I usually hike with a staff whose length is adjustable. Most of the time I do not dayhike with poles or staff, so I just leave the tarp erected. But I have no issues with removing the mast pole and leaving the tarp collapsed. Just make sure it is left in a condition where any rain will drain off and away from the tarp and not flood underneath.
Warmth. Folk mistakenly credit double wall tents as being warmer. Meh! Maybe by a couple of degrees, considering a thin tent wall has miniscule R value. A tent's perceived warmth comes from blocking the wind. The big difference between double wall tents and tarps is tarps have a de facto vent running the entire bottom edge of the shelter, and most of us leave that gap open. A tarp setup thusly is more drafty, and warmth is carried away by the draft. Many shelters, including many tarp designs, can be battened down to close off openings to the outside, but this becomes a trade off between less wind chill versus more condensation. I'd rather bring a warmer sleep solution than contend with a damp shelter interior.
Bugs. Trad tarps do not have floor. Mine doesn't, anyway. If ground critters are a concern, floorless tarps are not a good solution. The only bugs I am concerned with are mosquitoes. Many tarps have netting upgrades, often complete with floors. I chose not to avail to that option for weight reasons. Instead I bring one of those bug nets sized for a sleeping bag.
I only set my shelter if bad weather is anticipated; otherwise I sleep cowboy style under the bug net.
Ed
Last edited by Gogd on Sat Dec 17, 2022 6:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For all you rock enthusiasts, be sure to leave no trace. Do not pull rocks up out of the ground; if you have to do this, replace them exactly into their original hole when you leave. When you have returned all rocks, look at the site and it should look like nobody has been there. The exception is an already established site that has an obvious sand platform, and perhaps a wind protection wall. If extremely environmentally sensitive, you may want to restore the site to its original state. There are pros and cons about leaving an established site as is or restoring it. If it is legal and not in a sensitive vegetation area, I tend to say leave it. Many are too close to lakes and streams. Then I am torn- it takes a bit of time and effort to restore them to nature.
I am no fan of candles inside tents. Too much of a fire risk. Tents are tight spaces and it is easy to accidentally knock things down.
Wandering Daisy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:13 am
I am no fan of candles inside tents. Too much of a fire risk. Tents are tight spaces and it is easy to accidentally knock things down.
I do share your concern. At some point I may post a DYI of my candle heater. One would have to destroy it in order to knock it off the tent mast pole, or otherwise create a situation where something could be damaged by the heat or flame.
Do you know if any tents made nowadays have fire resistant material treatment? I have melted small portions of the sleeves of fleece when cooking or lighting the stove. At home when I back up too close to the fireplace (which is enclosed in glass) the fleece starts to smell. A flame does not even have to touch the nylon before it starts to melt.
Although it is not lightweight, I have an REI handwarmer that lasts over 12 hours on one charge. Rather than trying to keep the tent warm, you could put it inside your sleeping bag and keep yourself warm. One model also can act simply as a power bank to use to recharge other electronics. Not a solution for a long trip, but it may work for an overnight.
Dumb question???
So with single wall tents and cloudy weather, do you just wrap up the whole wet mess of fabric and just leave it wet for days? Presumably not so nice if you pack the tent in the bottom of the main backpack compartment?...Which I do not do - always keep in tent sack outside my pack though have thought about stuffing it in main pack part but put off by this wetness issue even with double wall tent sometimes.
Wandering Daisy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:17 am
Do you know if any tents made nowadays have fire resistant material treatment? I have melted small portions of the sleeves of fleece when cooking or lighting the stove. At home when I back up too close to the fireplace (which is enclosed in glass) the fleece starts to smell. A flame does not even have to touch the nylon before it starts to melt.
Although it is not lightweight, I have an REI handwarmer that lasts over 12 hours on one charge. Rather than trying to keep the tent warm, you could put it inside your sleeping bag and keep yourself warm. One model also can act simply as a power bank to use to recharge other electronics. Not a solution for a long trip, but it may work for an overnight.
Federal law requires tents meet a fire resistance rating. Most tent will burn anyway, albeit at a slower rate. I think stove fuel accidents pretty much make fast work of any tent, regardless of it flame resistance claims.
When folks smell something burning in my presence, often it is the consequence of me trying to think; the other likely cause is something you can probably guess without me having to incriminate myself.
The candle was not intended to heat the tent per se, it was to generate a convection current through the vents at the top of my shelter, to evacuate humid air and reduce condensation/frost. The design of the candle holder includes a heat shield, based on the heat guards covering the barrels of automatic weapons. And the flame cannot contact other objects as the candle resides in a tube surrounded by the heat shield. All areas of the candle heater that can come in contact with other objects get no hotter than 175⁰F, as measured in LA County in summertime temperatures. It is safe to assume that figure is lower when in use in cooler weather. As for hand warmers - never had the need for them, but you'd probably laugh at the overkill ratings of my winter mummy bag, camp side down apparel, and my thumbless "flipper" mittens.
Ed
Last edited by Gogd on Mon Dec 19, 2022 5:38 pm, edited 3 times in total.
@michaelzim never a dumb question! There's as many ways to pack a wet single wall as a wet double wall, so don't take mine as gospel. Usually I find either the footprint or the walls are irrevocably wet, but not both (rain vs condensation). When this is the case, I'll try to wrap the wet part within the dry part, to prevent water migration into the rest of my pack, until I can dry the tent out.
In the worst case, I have a plastic pack liner, and depending on the weather, will quarantine my wet tent from the rest of my pack using the liner, or if it's wet out, will keep my dry goods in the plastic and leave everything wet loose. I find my happiness during the day is more strongly correlated to having a well-packed pack than having to stop for a bit to air out gear.
If the whole tent is horribly soaked, and the weather doesn't look to be letting up, I'll keep my critical gear dry in the liner (sleeping bag, electronics) and seek out shelter where I can start to slowly towel-off my shelter. Or just bail.
One of my most valuable items I take is a sponge- it weighs nothing. I sponge off tent and am really surprised at how much water I can squeeze out of the sponge. All that water weighs something. You will not get off all the water, but a good share. A very absorbent towel or kerchief works too. Not all sponges or kerchiefs are alike- 100% cotton best for kerchief. The sponge is also a life saver if I have a leak in the tent. The bag for my tent is waterproof so packing a wet tent is not an issue of getting other stuff wet. Once you set up the tent, unless it is still raining, it dries quickly.
Wandering Daisy wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 7:45 pm
One of my most valuable items I take is a sponge- it weighs nothing...
But, yes, condensation is annoying.
+1 on the sponge. I bring one of those large, open cell sponges hardware stores sell in the tile setting department. That kind of sponge absorbs a ton of water, and a wringing removes most of it from the sponge. I use only half of the sponge, since I really don't need that much water capacity. And it compresses down to nothing. The most frequent use for me is removing the condensation and dirt from bottom side of my ground cloth.
just going to provide my 2cents, nothing new in this post
I dont even remember exactly when I switched to single wall, non-freestanding tarptents, buts its been well over 10 years, probably closer to 15 years, so I have been using them for a long time in all conditions.
Set-up: can be fidgety to get rocks to substitute as steaks, but I have never NOT set up my tent, or even come close to worrying about it. I have never had my tent fall to pieces in a storm. It is a small inconvenience, and worth the weight savings IMO.
Temperature: Yes, they are colder than double wall. However my sleeping bag is of high quality and properly rated. I have never had an issue being cold. I would be carrying the same sleeping bag and clothing even with the added weight of a double wall, so for me, there is nothing to gain temperature wise with using a double wall tent.
Condensation: Condensation is very rarely an issue for me. I have never had my gear "soaked" from condensation....not even close. Just like set-up, this is a small inconvenience. Most nights there is hardly any. I am pretty sure I got the sponge trick from WD from here years ago. A quick wipe is pretty much all that is needed. When my tent is laid out on a slab in the sun in the morning while I eat breakfast, the majority of it evaporates very quickly. Again, the extra condensation 90% of the time is not an issue, and when it is it is still very much worth the weight savings IMHO
I would never consider using any kind of heater or candle in a tent
