Should the burden of dealing with off leash dogs rest with their owners, or hikers that encounter them in NFS Wilderness

[LMBSGV]

Unfortunately some people don’t care about how their actions impact others at home or in the wilderness, and no toothless law, that cannot be enforced anyways, is going to change that.

That, and most of the rest of Maverick's post, sums up my attitude about this. And, yes, I've been hassled by dogs several times, including this year on two separate occassions.

All the complaining about dogs and all other violations of regulations are meaningless unless they are enforced. And enforcement will not happen unless the Forest Service receives a huge budget increase.

[Wandering Daisy]

I have run into less than 10 rangers in 25 years backpacking extensively in the Sierra. I have NEVER run into a game warden. Makes me wonder why I even buy a fishing license. Rangers probably already warn dog owners if their dogs are not under control, but that may be one percent of backcountry dogs. Warnings seem to be their preferred enforcement, rather than citations. The enforcement idea is just not going to fly with today's FS funding. I am not sure rangers even are official law enforcement, with authority to arrest people and carry guns - maybe a few but certainly not the summer help that I mostly see. Backpacking and hiking always will be self-regulated activities.

A lot of dog owners assume the other person knows about dog behavior. I was totally ignorant about dogs until we got one. I used to be basically scared of dog encounters, which really sets the dogs up for at least bluffing aggressiveness. Now I am pretty calm, even if a muddy dog jumping up on me is not appreciated. Now that I am a dog owner, I react differently to dogs; and they to me.

Yes, the "burden" is on the dog owner, but that does not necessarily mean a leash. Simply ASSUME anyone you meet on the trail without a dog, is not familiar with dogs or scared of dogs, so act accordingly. With our border collie, the answer is to keep my eyes far ahead, and if I see someone on the trail, step aside, call the dog over and commend "lay down" and "stay". That "burden" is always on ME to react before she is off running at someone.

I have warned approaching hikers if there are hazards on the trail ahead of them (bears, rattlesnakes, dogs or crazy people). I do not feel a minute or less time it takes for the warning is a "burden" at all.

It looks like we really have beat this topic to death. I am opting out of any further comments. Thanks everyone for your perspective on this.

[erutan]

Enforcement (gun) and interpretive (fun) rangers are different and have different duties - the latter cannot cite people. I usually run into a few rangers a summer if I’m mostly in NPS territory, NFS I can go a summer or two without seeing one. FWIW I’ve had my permit checked four times this summer, twice in the backcountry and twice at a trailhead parking lot.

I don’t agree that regulations are useless if they aren’t enforced - as of now they are people (here and elsewhere) that have looked up Inyo’s regulations and have a different interpretation of them than Inyo does. That isn’t great. 100% compliance even with enforcement will never happen, but most people do try to follow the rules.

I don’t see sharing conditions / hazards information as a ‘burden’ in the same way that taking responsibility for bringing a dog into the wildness is (unless the person doing the warning created the hazard). I do disagree with people that can control their dogs choosing not to, forcing me to try and interpret their dogs behavior as they approach me - that’s the burden I have been referring to. In terms of self-regulating I don’t think that behavior should be celebrated or encouraged in terms of community consensus, especially as HST often sees content as written for the internet as a whole vs in-community conversation.

I agree with WD’s take on where that burden lies - people should be able to opt-in into interacting with someone else’s dog, not have to explicitly opt-out of doing so.

There isn’t any real in-community debate whether people littering or camping on grass right next to water etc is good or bad behavior, which I imagine why it isn’t a topic of conversation aside from occasional griping.

In my recent attack I was ~30 feet away from some people, stopped to say hi to them, and their dog ran up barking and then was snarling and lunging at me. I’m not sure that can be explained away by me having poor dog etiquette, and the owners genuinely thought their dog was under voice control.

I don’t mind off leash dogs that stick tight to their owners when I’m in eyesight, but would prefer that when we’re close that they are restrained. Leashes are meaningless in tight quarters.

[maverick]

This topic is now locked, goodbye.