Gaming the system

[balzaccom]

Of course you are right, Daisy.

It's interesting to see what we are told as USFS volunteers. We have no enforcement powers at all, and in some jurisdictions we are specifically directed NOT to confront anyone who is in violation of the regulations. We are only allowed to respond to questions.

In others, we are trained to educate about the reasons behind the regulations, in the hopes that they will understand better for next time.

A lot of times, I get the sense that some of there people are like speeders on the highway. They figure that as long as they don't get caught, it doesn't matter.

[Silky Smooth]

Soo many great points by creekfeet, balzacomm, WD and Bobby.

As mad as it makes us, you are right, if an LE is not involved it is very difficult sometimes to deter people from their actions. Sometimes rangers, interpretive rangers, volunteers, etc. are just as helpless as the rest of us but one distinction that Bobby brought up is they can usually relay a message or get an LE involved if they feel it is necessary. The poor Whitney rangers deal with a lot of this crap, besides the literal. Hence the high turnover and picking up human poop all day, it shouldn't be a top 3 job task. There some disenchanted ones out there that turn a blind eye but usually they care and give a damn from what i have seen. Rob and Laura P do amazing job in SEKI, they are relentless and such hard workers. Matt Barnes did a fabulous job in the golden trout wilderness. But the last couple years with covid and the policy of non-engagement, we have seen a lot of destruction. Administration is a whole different issue.

The people issue, i'm with WD on that one. If i don't have a permit for that area when it's permit season, i just don't go. I understand the quota and I see the impact in some places yearly living here in the eastern sierra. There is this local lady who moved back into the eastern sierra after 20 + years away. She worked on trail development in Denali and spoke about just the impact of having a trail in a wilderness area. She told me about all the silly things people do and the impact to nature and wildlife. She was not happy with the Alabama Hills when she came but the new management plan has made things much better. There is signage, there are designated camping spots, there are some porta potties. It just shows as others mentioned, the public needs to be involved and a partner in the process as well. Balzacomm you nailed it, sometimes the locals here in the eastern sierra are just as bad as the tourists.

One time near Cathedral Peak by the climbers way, up near the saddle in the back towards the echo's. Some clowns had a drown and clearly knew they shouldn't have it. It took a conservancy employee, an aramak employee, a climber, a random hiker, and park volunteer to deter the fools. Sometimes it takes a village, sometimes we all have to speak up. Sometimes we just have to make a call.

[SSSdave]

So many great points by...Sometimes it takes a village, sometimes we all have to speak up. Sometimes we just have to make a call.

As a landscape photographer that prefers to choose promising weather conditions, I do not like the current permit systems that makes short notice walk up permits in many areas impossible.

There will never be enough wilderness rangers in the backcountry and perpetrators know it. If more of us that have the ability to speak up calmly do so when we see others breaking policy, they will have more to fear. Most so confronted tend to just be embarrassed and that will make them think about such in the future. 3 big ones:

No wilderness permit.
Campfires above elevation limits in timberline zones.
Camping too close to lakes when there are plenty of alternatives at legal distance.