Alta permit for Tamarack Lake?

[Lenier]

Recreation.gov allows one to select Tamarack Lake for a 2nd night camp spot with an Alta permit. Is this actually legally permissible? Asking here in case the response from SEKI takes awhile.

[druid]

Recreation.gov allows one to select Tamarack Lake for a 2nd night camp spot with an Alta permit. Is this actually legally permissible?

It's certainly legal if you hike from Alta Meadow up to Moose Lake and then over Pterodactyl Pass. But I'm guessing you're asking if you can get there via the HST. Given the language at https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/traildesc.htm, it sounds like the answer is "no":

**Please note that a High Sierra Trail permit is needed to access the High Sierra Trail between Seven Mile Hill and Kaweah Gap. A permit for the Alta Trail is not valid for travel on this segment of High Sierra Trail**

I suppose too many people (myself included) were using Alta permits to hike some or all of the HST after the Crescent Meadow quota filled up, similar to what was happening in Yosemite that led to restrictions being made on crossing Donahue Pass.

[Lenier]

They've restricted this for a few years (yes, I've seen that page), just surprised it still lets you set a second night destination using the HST.

[wildhiker]

They've restricted this for a few years (yes, I've seen that page), just surprised it still lets you set a second night destination using the HST.

Well, how does recreation.gov know you are going to use the HST? From Mehrten Meadow you could head up into the Tablelands, over Pterodactyl Pass, and down the Elizabeth Pass trail to get to Tamarack Lake. Granted, that would be a long and difficult day and very few would attempt it, but it is feasible for some (not for me!).
-Phil

[JayOtheMountains]

Not quoting Wildhiker, but to mirror his comment and to clarify the language a tad more...

The way the system is set up, there is no requirement to list what route you plan to take or a way to manage what route one would take between planned destinations. It is generally assumed that people take the straight-line path or trails between destinations, but that is not the actual travel requirement. The purpose of listing nightly destinations is mostly for SAR purposes followed by impact and use tracking. I personally have taken the long way between two relatively close planned camp spots; it's my plan and the only requirement of the agency is to list where you plan to be after day 1. They want to know where you plan to stop on night 1, but after that your itinerary is just a plan - how you execute the plan is up to you.

For example, in 2018 I led a trip with a plan to exit the sierras from Mt Whitney, but down the mountaineer's route. Argued with the ranger in Lone Pine that it wasn't their duty to determine whether my party was allowed to utilize that path (all of that was of the correct permit type; exit Mt Whitney zone, not main trail) but in listing my plan, the issuing ranger stated that we were not allowed to go from Guitar Lake to Upper Boyscout lake. It wasn't her duty to determine what path we took to get to or from the two points, but to determine whether we had the right permit for our plan and that the plan was documented. With the correct permit type you can go pretty much anywhere. It took a bit for the ranger to understand the requirement, but once I pointed out the entire thing to the supervisor, the supervisor did agree with my stance.

[Lenier]

Thanks for sharing Jay, that's fairly enlightening!

I'm wondering why this is such an issue for the HST specifically, considering the impact area I believe they're most worried about is Hamilton. I think, in an ideal situation, they'd copy the language used by the Lakes Trail "pass-through" permit and allow Alta trail permits to use the section between 7 Mile trail and the Bearpaw area to reach Redwood Meadow/Tamarack/Elizabeth pass. There's no restriction on where you can do on dayhikes, as far as I'm aware, and that area is perfectly reachable on a dayhike - I've personally gone out to Bearpaw twice and returned to Visalia before sunset in the summer!

[JayOtheMountains]

It was years ago, but I utilized Alta to embark on a loop that included the HST out to little/big five lakes as Crescent Meadow had reached quota. I understand the bottleneck issue with overcrowding at Bearpaw as the HST became more popular. It is easy to restrict Alta permits on that part of the trail to keep the impact under control. Sadly, this also limits other trips from that area - such as an out-and-back to Tamarack, or to utilize the HST to Elizabeth pass; or to get in to Redwood Meadow while avoiding the summer heat from the Middle-Fork Kaweah trail. The policy both makes sense but also limits accesses to other relevant trails. The better solution would be to not issue HST through permits at all if the start is from either of the Wolverton Trailheads, but that would be difficult to set up utilizing the recreation.gov system in its current state. Bearpaw is a busy place, with the concessionaire's camp, and the following few miles to Kawea Gap is some of the most ballyhooed trail in the NPS section.

Though, back to my previous statement...
Or.. also you could plan to use the Middle Fork trail. You're going to want a pre-dawn or near to that start until mid-october, though as it gets hot in there until you're above the oaks at Methrin creek. A tad longer, a little more commitment, but also fewer people on trail that way.

[Lenier]

I've come down Middle Fork in late June before - it's not fun! The part of the trail just downhill from Bearpaw is in horrendous shape (as of last year) for sure.

I think my plan for this, for this summer, will be just to secure an Alta permit, arrive slightly before 1, and get a walk-up for the HST for that little section. I had wanted to do a trip where I summit Panther, Alta, camp at this little bluff on 9 mile, then head to Tamarack - but I can alter that slightly. Highly unlikely I'll see a HST permit pop-up for a Saturday for late June!

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That's the next question though - can you have overlapping permits like that?

[oleander]

It's not just Hamilton that is heavily impacted. It's also the Bearpaw Meadow area; and those small camping areas on the way there (such as Buck Creek) that can accommodate very few people.

I've been through Bearpaw 3 times in the past few years. The resident ranger was present - at Bearpaw or thereabouts (e.g. Buck Creek) - all 3 times. And checked my permit. This is exactly where you'd get in trouble if the ranger found you were carrying an Alta permit rather than the required High Sierra Trail one.

For the record, it is not hard to get to Tamarack via the Lakes Trail. I led a group of backpackers on their first-ever off-trail trip on that route. The route we took was Lakes Trail pass-thru - Table Meadows - Lake 11,200 - Pterodactyl Pass - Lonely Lake - contour to Elizabeth Pass Trail - descend to Tamarack Trail junction. 99% of the walking was Class 1, and the tiny bit of Class 2 was easy and not exposed. My only caution would be not to rush it; this whole approach is magnificent, with plenty of beautiful places to camp as well. We allowed a full 3 days to mosey from Wolverton to Tamarack.

[Lenier]

I already want to go to Moose Lake in July - perhaps I'll just research that route and go over to Tamarack via that exact route you've described and just combine it all.

I've never actually seen the Bearpaw campsites, somehow - the times I've gone to Hamilton, I went in one day and only stopped at the station. THe High Sierra campsite has never been open the times I've gone either, so I suppose I personally don't realize the full impact that area normally receives.