Anyone know if this N. Milestone Basin pass is a GO?

[thegib]

The trouble with your pass is that both east and west sides look rough. If you overcome the psych-out and claw your way up your reward is no gimme. It may still cliff out. Not knowing if it goes makes it much harder. Of course that's how new tough routes are made.

[wildhiker]

they are slowly updating existing slope angle shading with new, much more hi res stuff. desolation is the only part of the sierra that i’m aware of with the new slope info, and it’s pretty striking compared to the blocky stuff we are used to.

Just checked the Cathedral Range in Yosemite Park in Caltopo with the slope shading layer- it also has the very high resolution slope shading like Desolation. I could easily see the little cliff bands along gullies that gave me some trouble last year.

-Phil

[erutan]

Interesting, that'll be useful when it all rolls out.

Sort of a shame they're starting with deso and not SEKI.

[michaelzim]

Yep!

The trouble with your pass is that both east and west sides look rough. If you overcome the psych-out and claw your way up your reward is no gimme. It may still cliff out. Not knowing if it goes makes it much harder. Of course that's how new tough routes are made.

Indeed, the header on this post is a question and the feedback has been great! Without someone going over it and reporting in yet it could be anything from a likely Class 2.5 to a 3 FX (my preferred shorthand for the moment for "Fatally Exposed"). And I am no hero when it comes to exposure on well documented routes let alone unknown ones.

For the record though, this thread has led to some useful conclusions so far:
~ Initially this Milestone from Reflection Lake loop was a "possible plan" to have ready for the summer. All this back and forth has inspired me to make it a solid "go" if conditions permit (like no smothering early fires, etc., etc.).
~ Daisy's last two photos are just gorgeous and cap the cake for checking out that valley leading to Thunder Pass after some time in the main Milestone Basin.
~ My "Is this a GO" gap is absolutely going to depend on what it looks like in reality and with the high possibility of an exploratory day hike beforehand. In addition will take my longer heavy duty para-cord for potential pack transits.
~ I am not going to depend on Slope Angle Shading as much as I did before. Well, not in areas it has not been upgraded at least.

Eurtan...many thanks for all the work getting those links for a loop to the west and I have already checked out those posts. Looks very good and I will spend time looking more closely at that option as an alternate. It will depend on just how fast I travel once there....Also, MacLeod Pass is the key to heading in that direction. So far I have found nothing other than a one sentence description of "Class 2" - which as we know can mean up to some Class 3 Exposed stuff. Am I just missing a better write up that you know of??? An HST search and Google search came up with zip.

Thanks much ~ Zimichael

[erutan]

Heh, I switched up thunder pass and thunder ridge / west thunder pass in my head - oops. Added Thunder Ridge to OSM but it'll take a while to get slurped up.

MacLeod > West Thunder / Thunder Ridge > Cinder Col > Sphinx Pass seems like the most direct loop back, with Brewer Creek + Avalanche as a bypass for Sphinx Col as a potentially easier but longer way.

That just feels like a "rough" area with loose talus and steep slopes in general, so it's probably about picking the least worst route. I'd imagine if there's not a lot of beta for something it might be for a reason.

Summitpost tends to get climbers/peakbaggers (worth keeping in mind)

https://www.summitpost.org/macleod-pass/775429

"Hellish talus below MacLeod Pass in the Sierra Nevada. Much of it is loose." "The [Eastern] side is steeper, but much less hideous."

https://www.summitpost.org/thunder-moun ... log/150591

"and back up "MacLeod pass" (the saddle south of Thunder). This is awfully long and loose"

"Went up McLeod Pass (ick)"

A differing opinion here by oldranger viewtopic.php?t=3453#p20391

https://drdirtbag.wordpress.com/2011/09 ... der-19h45/

" The valley leading to MacLeod Pass on Thunder’s southwest side is a mess of hilly moraines filled with huge talus, so there’s no avoiding a protracted boulder hop; the best you can do is minimize the number of loose-sided valleys you cross. Fortunately, MacLeod Pass is not nearly as bad as Secor claims, with slabs leading up to a point high on the right side, and solid rock or stable talus most of the way up the gully. "

Skurka's HST infamous KCHBR route goes from colby lake over to talus pass and then longely down to reflection lake, might perhaps an alternate route over sphinx pass https://andrewskurka.com/wp-content/upl ... scaled.jpg there should be some good trip reports or long youtube videos etc for that since it's an acronym. The guide itself could be a solid $25 investment if you can't get enough info elsewhere I suppose.

[terrapin]

Here is a map showing the coverage of the high resolution slope angle data: https://caltopo.com/l/CM87

All of Yosemite (and Desolation, and much that isn't particularly useful) but no SEKI and nothing between SEKI and Yosemite.

Interesting, that'll be useful when it all rolls out.

Sort of a shame they're starting with deso and not SEKI.

[erutan]

@terrapin thanks for that. Are the missing gaps data which just hasn't been processed and will be added later, or does it just not exist and would need to be scanned by some government agency at an unknown date?

Since you seem really up on the mapping side of things, do you have anything to contribute to an OSM / XC norms thread I created a bit ago? viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22161

[sparky]

North slope looks doable

However on google earth the south side of that notch appears to be unreasonably loose and small scree/sand/silt intermixed with some larger talus sprinkled here and there for about 200'-ish. However the angle doesnt appear to be too bad. Cant tell if its trivial or a death trap to be honest

But in the overall picture of the route there just isnt much to gain by hopping the ridge here, as to circumvent isnt far out of the at all, is more intuitive given the terrain IMO, and is absolutely beautiful taboot. Going around seems like a win/win, again only in my opinion

[terrapin]

@terrapin thanks for that. Are the missing gaps data which just hasn't been processed and will be added later, or does it just not exist and would need to be scanned by some government agency at an unknown date?

Since you seem really up on the mapping side of things, do you have anything to contribute to an OSM / XC norms thread I created a bit ago? viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22161

I think the data doesn't exist yet. The map came from an old post in the CalTopo blog: https://blog.caltopo.com/2019/12/20/hig ... tion-data/ . The map is referenced in the second comment. Further down, the CalTopo guy who is answering questions says that the USGS plans on having the entire U.S. covered in 2023, but that is a 2-year-old comment.

I'm definitely not particularly knowledgeable with regards to mapping. As for your OSM/XC thread, I concur with everyone that "trails" over x-country passes should not exist on OSM or any maps, for the reasons everyone stated. I'm in my extremely-late 50s and so tend to side with the curmudgeons when it comes to questions like that. I think there is a new generation of hikers that are too reliant on following GPS traces and have no idea how to read a map. That said, the first time I went off trail with a downloaded map on a GPS-capable phone it was awfully nice! (This is now very off-topic from the original thread so I'll shut up).

[Enigmagic]

@terrapin thanks for that. Are the missing gaps data which just hasn't been processed and will be added later, or does it just not exist and would need to be scanned by some government agency at an unknown date?

the USGS 3DEP is the source of the data Caltopo uses, they aggregate a variety of data including the high resolution LIDAR scans that makes for good slope angle shading. they're still claiming a 2023 date to complete the US, and will be covering more (but not all) of the Sierra this year. here's a map https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/3d-el ... rtnerships