Rain Gear Recommendations?

[Wandering Daisy]

I thought B-squared said that they recommended AGAINST a poncho.

Cheap ponchos do not do as well in windy higher altitude conditions; they can allow a wind-driven rain inside and even get entirely blown apart. But there are good quality ponchos that have means to keep them around you in a wind. If you are mostly on trails, mostly in timber, and not shoulder seasons, I think you would be OK. Take this with a grain of salt; my personal bias is against ponchos.

Consider if this piece of equipment is going to be a one-time use item, or do you want to invest in something that you can continue to use; if so, consider your home conditions too. Personally, I would invest in something I could use in the future where you backpack more often even if it is a bit over-kill for this one trip.

[freestone]

I thought B-squared said that they recommended AGAINST a poncho.

Sorry, got that wrong!

Bsq--Did they give you any recommendations?

[moonburn]

Thanks for the advice, WD! The fragility of rain pants is what I was afraid of. I'll look into wind pants or other options. Oh, and I'm pretty much off the campfire train except when car-camping these days

[bobby49]

For one extremely serious trip, I needed some serious rain pants, so I purchased some very good commercial Goretex pants and they worked out.

However, for summers in the Sierra Nevada, my requirements for rain pants are not serious, so I sewed my own. This was a very thin nylon fabric, and I would call them "semi-waterproof." The advantage of the fabric was that there was never enough to get bunched up in the crotch area. Also, the thinness of the fabric made them very lightweight, like 2.3 - 2.5 ounces. Some of that weight came from two tiny zippers that extend from the knees down.

[Wandering Daisy]

Bobby- in the old days (1970's) did you ever use a "cagoul" (spelling??) which was basically a knee length loose-fitting rain jacket with armpit slots? That with knee high gaiters is all I ever used back then. There was a time when "rain chaps" were popular. I have not seen these recently either. And for a while "rain skirts" were popular, even for guys (and even kilts!). At some point, gear evolved into short jacket and rain pants. It is interesting how raingear has changed over time. But if you sew, you can make any type you want, even if not available commercially anymore.

[bobby49]

I never had a cagoule, although I X-C skied with others who used that. They were mostly Europeans. Yes, I have some rain chaps that I purchased about forty years ago. However, I fell on my butt enough that they were not practical in snow.

Ponchos were never much good at high altitude or high wind. They would whip up around your head, and that was a mess. Then I discovered that proper rain shell jackets and pants would help to retain your body heat better, so I haven't had a poncho in about fifty years.

I have not checked on this lately, but I used to purchase fabric patterns and kits to sew up myself. Since I am not that good with a sewing machine, I needed to stay in the simple designs. However, I retained the paper patterns, so I can keep replacing the old designs with new fabric.

When the old Western Mountaineering store was located in downtown San Jose, we used to go in there and wander back to the back room where they stuffed goose down into down garments. That was a real trip!

[Wandering Daisy]

In spite of raingear, in severe storms I have always gotten wet at some point. I do not think you can 100% protect yourself with rain gear. Beefy raingear may allow you stay out in the rain longer, but is that worth the extra cost and weight? How important is it to you to have dry hiking pants? If do not wear your hiking pants when sleeping, putting on damp pants the next day may not be that bad since they dry quickly. Mid-season in the Sierra has short storms usually with sufficient drying time between storms, that raingear can be minimal. Raingear buys you less drying out time and convenience. It all depends on your hiking goals. You have less flexibility about this with a large group who may not be willing to give you drying out time.

I have mixed feelings about my umbrella because I like it but have difficulty using it in wind or with trekking poles. It also provides shade, a major advantage mid-summer in the Sierra. Mine weighs 7 oz. which is about the same as my rain pants. I always debate which to take. When I do not take it, I wish I had.

When I coastal hike (wet-mild temperatures), I plan on being wet and use my "raingear" like a wetsuit to stay warm. Dry clothes for camp stay in a dry-bag inside my pack. Even when it is not raining, I get totally soaked by the constant heavy dew on head-high thick vegetation along the trails. At first I thought it would be miserable, then found the concept of accepting wetness OK. I am still in the process of trying to be more accepting of being wet.
However this does not work in wet-cold conditions, like the Rockies.

[Gogd]

moonburn: I use my rain pants as a camp layer when needed, but I am very careful to sit on a small sit-pad, not on rocks or the ground. Rain pants are fairly fragile if they are the UL/lightweight kind. You could also bring a pair of lightweight wind pants. I think you can get these that weigh only a few ounces.

If you wear your rain pants to watch stars, stay away from campfires. You may not see the sparks, but fires inevitably have tiny sparks that leave pin-holes in nylon- same for tent fly- keep the tent a good distance from campfires.

The more you wear rain pants the more stress is put on the material. I find that my gore-tex jacket wears out under my pack shoulder straps. Your rain pants may wear out a bit sooner if you regularly use them at night.

+1 everything she said! My rain jackets only last only two or three seasons, due to pack straps tugging at the rain jacket, as WD stated. (I thought I was the only one with this problem!)

I use cycling thermal tights instead of long john thermals, for warmth around camp, because they do a pretty good job blocking the wind, as well as a thermal layer - saves wear and tear on expensive rain gear. When it get colder, rain gear over the tights takes me down to the low 20s. I wear shorts over tights and over rain pants, to help protect them from damage.

I use the REI rain jacket that rlown referenced, and a Marmot VBL rain pant similar to the REI jacket. I find DWR treatments ineffective in rain storms lasting more than a few hours. And ponchos? Nope! I get soaked after a few hours in a wind driven rain wearing a poncho. I used to get heavier rain gear but found it didn't last any longer than the lighter gear. Every piece of rain gear I've ever owned that effectively blocked the rain will eventually feel like a sauna from sweat. PNW loggers used to say you can be warm and wet, or cold and wet, but you can't remain dry.

I also bring an umbrella. It is mounted on my pack so my hands are free. I use it mainly for sun shade. If there is no wind, then it is all I need to stay dry in a shower. In a driven rain it allows me to remove my hood and unzip my jacket for much improved ventilation. The umbrella also affords a better dry entry/exit of tents without getting the contents inside the vestibule or tent wet. FWIW: my parasol is about the most used piece of equipment in my kit, second only to my boots and pack.

My favorite rain wear ever was a cagoule from the 1980s, made out of 1st gen Gore Tex. Really good ventilation due to its loose fit. I one time rode out an evening hunkered down in a tree well in this cagoule, when a February wind storm near the Rocky Mountain crest above Boulder, Co. precluded me from getting to the other side and back home. I just tucked my knees to my chest and tightened the hem line draw string around my ankles. It served well as a survival bivouac shelter. Alas someone stole it from my car. I'd get another one if there was a VBL version on the market.

Ed

[Mike M.]

I've always been a poncho user.

When I first started backpacking, I would use an extra big Hefty Bag with armholes cut in. This worked fine for just hanging around camp in a squall. Truly ultralight but confining. You wouldn't want to do any activity that requires exertion, or else you would sweat up a storm. Then I graduated to a purpose-made Sierra Designs nylon poncho, which served me well for more than a decade.

in the early 2000's, I bought an extremely lightweight poncho made of silicon-impregnated nylon, made by a Canadian company called Integral Designs. It's very well designed and can be used in a pinch as a tarp tent (with hiking poles). I use it most often in camp, rather than retreating to a tent. It works for hiking with a pack on too, but is not ideal for that. (But I find hiking with a jacket or light rain shell to be just as bad -- too much sweat build up. The poncho is slightly better in that regard.) I don't think Integral Designs is in business any more.

Mike M.

[BSquared]

Ah, a cagoule! Oui effectivement! Funny, but between the last time I looked at this thread and just now, my very feeble memory kicked in to just that concept, and I looked around but found nothing like that that seemed to fit the bill. I seem to recall that in the 1980s many of my climber friends considered a cagoule to be a vital piece of survival gear. But none to be found, at least no lightweight ones that I could find...