Don't skate on thin ice

[TahoeJeff]

6 people fall into frozen Tahoe-area lake while ice skating, 1 dead

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/body- ... ar-AATw5jJ

[rlown]

Reservoir ice is generally a bad idea, and during a warm winter is also bad.

[brandy]

Someone went in at Convict Lake a few days ago but he was able to self rescue. Here’s a video of a pressure ridge opening up at the back of Convict Lake on Friday, I believe.

https://vm.tiktok.com/TTPdkpfagS/

[Gogd]

A thing that gets my ire in the BC are ski tracks or foot tracks cutting across frozen lakes. Even so-called expert trekkers defend the practice. They point out people venture out onto lake ice all the time in the snow belt. They overlook such practice is restricted to areas where the ice is monitored and deemed safe by local authorities. No such oversight in the wilderness, however.

[rlown]

A thing that gets my ire in the BC are ski tracks or foot tracks cutting across frozen lakes. Even so-called expert trekkers defend the practice.

I've done the ski across the lake thing to get back faster. Works well unless you fall with your 45 lb pack... You have to pick the right lake and the right ice depth though. As for the ski tracks, it is called Winter. It would snow again and cover it or melt.

[c9h13no3]

No such oversight in the wilderness, however.

Damn straight.

[Gogd]

..You have to pick the right lake and the right ice depth though. As for the ski tracks, it is called Winter. It would snow again and cover it or melt.

No problem with the tracks, unless they fail to reach the other side. My comment was meant to allude to the evidence of unnecessary risk taking in the BC.

I lived NW of Chicago for 8 years, surrounded by ponds and numerous swales. We did not find a reliable way to verify ice safety, given the way it forms and ages can mask its actual integrity; and time of season is not reliable enough to assume ice conditions. Often an unsafe lake is obvious, but even the safe ones often are only safe in certain parts, with the unsafe parts lurking, undetected. Ice in the Sierra is just as capricious as Midwest ice. I know the following is a very simplistic generalization as it ignores shoreline topography, but elementary geometry alludes on average the direct route across a lake is only 30% faster than going around, so are the gains really worth the potential consequences?

Just curious: what objective criteria do you use to evaluate safe ice, or is this more of an ice whisperer thing?

Ed

[rlown]

Just me, but I look at the edge of the lake first. If that is thawed, I would assume you are at greater risk.
Outside temp and temp history and stay away from areas that have currents (inlet, outlet.)
The reason I'm adverse to reservoirs is that they might actually be drawing down water which is a bad thing if you want to go on the ice.
My first run was on skis across Loon Lk (a reservoir.) Skiing is a bit safer as your weight is spread out. It was 14 degrees in late January, so we felt pretty confident, and the ice was clear enough to know we had at least 8" under us. I fell twice with a full pack. You've heard the pigs on ice quote so i wont go there
The other thing is to let those more experienced lead you first.

Another HST guy used to do ice skating regularly. Here is a topic he posted: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=8694

[Gogd]

Yea, those skating vids sure are seductive. Very pretty. Skating in the Minarets has to be a spiritual experience.

The guy in your video link made a cursory evaluation, using an ice screw, then proceeded to skate across vast stretches of lake ice. Such methodology is more to affect peace of mind than a critical assessment, as that single sample has no bearing on conditions elsewhere on the lake. Attempting to assess ice thickness visually is even less reliable, because light refraction and opacities in the ice distort our perception of its actual condition. Knowing the weather history is also a false sense security. For example, there may have been a cold snap for a month, but if the ice had an snow layer covering during that time, the insulating property of the snow would minimize the influence of the air temperature on the ice.

The only way to assess ice safety with any certainty is to sample the entire area you intend to travel, by drilling core samples or utilizing a passive technology (e.g. laser or acoustic measuring sensors). Ideally you also have the means to test the ice weight bearing capacity, otherwise resort to establishing a default minimal thickness criteria, assuming the ice is weak.

So essentially you and our skater guy are making marginally effective attempts to hedge the odds, and relying equally on luck that you're not in the wrong place at the wrong time. Its an educated guess you're safe, but not much more than that. Kind of like using the rhythm method for birth control.

Good luck with that.

Ed

[rlown]

You appear to be overthinking the process.