Articles or Videos for late spring backpacking with some snow?

[michaelzim]

I debated putting this in the "Winter Sports" section, but I'm not actually looking to do winter camping - just late spring camping if a high snow year. So I'm after tips and tricks with particular reference to TERRAIN features to watch out for, and not so much gear recommendations. Typical examples would be hiking in non snowed in areas but then hitting snow at higher elevations when trying to get from A. to B. via some lower key X-country pass (or trail pass that has not had anyone over it leaving "snow-prints"). Thus none of those crazy steep hazard passes bordering Class 3. Only gentle stuff in the easy Class 1 & 2 zones.

I have been looking online already and have found plenty of stuff on winter gear. Very useful lists of essentials, plus tips on how to use that gear to advantage in super cold weather...That is not what I am after here. My goal would be to just push my late spring window back a bit (or even have a late spring window at all if still a lot of snow around) using my more cold weather clothing and gear for sure, but not to have snowshoes or X-country skis. Extras of maybe micro-spikes and gaiters at most.

So yes...
Only going out with an exemplary long term, warm and clear weather forecast.
Only going into areas not high in avalanche likelihood.
Only going with gear enough to survive 3 or 4 days snowed in, in a tent.
Etc.

I was not raised in snow-land (Central Africa!)
However, I have hung out in Switzerland in winter, been in super cold Midwest winters, can drive in snowy conditions, am familiar with post-holing and am very cautious of ice and slopes. Did end up in a tent getting snowed in for 3 days once just out of Lake Thomas Edison.
What I do not know much about are subtle TERRAIN features to avoid or watch out for, though I would hope to minimize that by careful route selection and education.

I have read up on avalanche basics, bits on cornice no-no's [Cornices seem to be a real likelihood?], snowshoeing, and this HST thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12108
However, reading stuff is OK but not the cat's pajamas. I feel like it is too removed and most of it too extreme for what I want...which is "Backpacking Tips when hitting snowy conditions, or proximity to maybe avalanche terrain if crossing a narrower pass than optimal". Etc.
Ideally, some YouTube videos on this subject would be great as there are plenty of very, very useful videos on gear and its use.

OK, enough. I can get more specific if needed. Just ask...This is my downtime winter musing project!

Any help appreciated...Thanks much ~ Michaelzim

[c9h13no3]

I don't have videos, but I think the best hiking-specific reference for spring backpacking would be from Andrew Skurka.

Mountaineering references like Freedom of the Hills, while obviously overkill, will also cover things like travel on steep snow slopes, fording rivers, snow blindness, ect.

[Wandering Daisy]

You do not need "full-on" winter gear for late Spring. Typical "shoulder season" clothing works fine. True winter snow is usually cold/dry; late spring snow is wet. Fast drying fabrics are preferred. High-tech mountaineering clothing generally perform well. Probably need at least a 15-degree bag. You likely will find dry spots to camp on. Bring an adequate sleeping pad that works if you are forced to set up on snow. Be sure your tent floor is waterproof- a tent footprint is helpful. You will have wet feet just about every day so an extra pair of socks and camp shoes may be nice. High gaiters are an essential, in my opinion. Shoes/boots need deep lugs for walking on snow. Not sure if you need waterproof because you will likely have wet feet either shoe type. If it freezes at night, very important to put wet shoes in a plastic bag and inside the tent or maybe even in the sleeping bag for a hard freeze. Same with water - better to have a small amount to drink at night inside the tent. Frozen water in a bottle is a pain to deal with in the morning- better to gather water in the morning. Take a bit extra fuel. You may need a slightly larger pack than you use for summer.

As for skiis/snowshoes/microspikes-- depends on how many miles on snow vs off snow. Which depends on what "late spring" means. Snow is pretty consolidated by May. Post-holing is likely and can be avoided by traveling early in the day. Microspikes do not weigh much and may be good for very early starts. Obviously, skiing requires some practice and skills. Not the time for first time on skis. Snowshoes are heavy- a lot to carry if only using them a few times. There are mountaineering snowshoes with spikes (MSR). For most of my early season backpacks with snow I have not taken skiis or snowshoes and heavily relied on timing the walking. (One time I did take snowshoes, was early April North Rim Traverse in Yosemite- carried them up to Snow Creek Buttress, wore them until out of snow coming down to Yosemite Falls, carried them down.) Trekking poles a must.

With snow information available nowadays, spend some time reviewing the most current snowpack data for your route. Also, southern Sierra tends to melt out earlier than northern.

Hazards include post-holing into a stream, falling in tree-wells, getting lost because trails are not visible, hypothermia (being wet when temperatures are near freezing), and falling through ice or snow while gathering water. Not likely to have major storms in the Sierra after mid-April. (NOT so in the Rockies! or Pacific NW).

Plan for shorter distances each day. I prefer to camp by about 3-4 PM to have time to dry clothing/shoes/socks and cook dinner before it becomes chilly. Camp at sites that get early AM sun; avoid camping in canyons that are shadowed both morning and evening. Wise to start out with 2-3 day trips to test out your gear and work up to longer trips.

[The Other Tom]

Search for videos by Ned Tibbets on YouTube (or FaceBook if you're a member)

[michaelzim]

@c9h13no3 How could I have not seen stuff by Andrew Skurka before???!!! EXCELLENT tip - Thank you!
I have now briefly perused his site and some articles. It is a gold-mine of good information, with a lot on precisely my question. Even some videos! I can tell that this source is going to be a great winter time sink for a while. Again, many thanks for this lead.

@Wandering Daisy As ever Daisy, you get the high kudos for solid, practical, detailed, extensive information. Your summary there is core mulling for me to think about. Plenty I have not seen mentioned yet in what I have seen or read so far. Many thanks too!

@The Other Tom Tom. Thanks for this as it looks like there is a bunch of stuff for me to look at c/o just a Google search of Ned Tibbets. Also the "Resources" page at his montaineducation.org has a slew of articles that look relevant. Like above, great info I had not known about before. Thank you!

HST members sure deliver! Michaelzim

[Wandering Daisy]

Another thought: in a few months when you have an idea of this winter's snowpack, read PCT journals for similar years, if you are thinking of early June as "late spring".

Class 1 passes (trails) can also be hazardous if they have switchbacks. Example is the Bishop Pass trail. Whan snow covers the switchbacks you have to ascend steep snow at another location. Same with Whitney Trail - lots of information on that on the Whitney Portal forum. The Mono Pass trail can also be hazardous when snow covered. If you climb these passes you need to have some means of stopping yourself if you fall. Not sure I would do any of them without ice axe and experience in snow climbing.

Similar to tree wells is under snow melt-out next to large rocks. Partially snow-covered talus fields are very tricky. If you post-hole into the gap, not only can you damage your leg or knee but actually get stuck. Melt-outs also occur in adjacent to brush.

Walking on snow is different than walking on dirt. You want to walk flat-footed, set the forefoot, pause a few seconds so the snow can set in your shoe lugs, transfer your weight, then gently lift the back foot. If you push off, you may sink in. Walk like you are on thin ice- gently. Snow is constantly changing conditions- can be solid and then within an hour, impossible to walk on. Snow in the forest shade can be less consolidated than snow out in the open that is subject to freeze-thaw cycles.

Etc,etc! Best is to start on easy short routes and learn actually doing it. Great if you can go with someone who knows what they are doing.

[michaelzim]

@Wandering Daisy
Thanks much for the added extras, and very pertinent ref. that easier passes may not be so safe after all if the trails are snowed in and one ends up on a “slippery slope” instead! Makes me realize that looking a “slope angle shading” on Caltopo could be somewhat useful, though more zeroed in trail detail optimal…if findable.
The PCT blogs (and videos) could help there but sure are prolific from initial perusal. Could you recommend a ‘go to’ one that you use perhaps?

Your paragraph below is addressing exactly the kind of additional info I have been searching for as the bigger stuff like avalanches gets much more print:
Similar to tree wells is under snow melt-out next to large rocks. Partially snow-covered talus fields are very tricky. If you post-hole into the gap, not only can you damage your leg or knee but actually get stuck. Melt-outs also occur in adjacent to brush.
Hopefully I can either find more details on the above and visualize this stuff well enough to avoid it. Or learn from hopefully minor errors!

I recall being up on ridge above Graveyard Lakes looking over a talus field to the north that I knew well from the prior year’s summer. It was May and covered in thick snow. My caution reflex kicked in and I thought about just what you said…in that I knew there had to be big gaps and spaces under that snow due to the huge rock jumble. I also wondered how I would stop if I started sliding. Or then get back up the slope if made it to the bottom. Result was I went no further.
If I want to do some of this “snow extension” backpacking I am going to have to figure out just how to address those questions or I’m not going to get very far!

On another note. Gear.
There are some items I don’t particularly want to get but may have to in order to even begin. Anyone’s “votes” on the most essential would be appreciated. However, I must point out something that I guess may be fundamental for near everyone reading this, for plain hiking let alone for snow and spring creek crossings. I do not have hiking poles. I plain do not like having something in my hands when trucking along, or grabbing at rocks when scrambling. Yes, I know all the good reasons, but limited trials with other’s poles has left me nonplussed and “un-poled” so far. Thus they are in this brief "terrain usefulness" priority list:
- Hiking Poles
- Whippet
- Microspikes
- Ice Axe
Ummmm, I think that is it as not interested in snowshoes or x-country skis. Any additions to something I missed though, welcome.

Of note too is that I have no experience with any of the above so would have to learn as I go, plus from YouTube videos.
I have kicked into snow and ice enough to know that more traction on my feet could be useful but, this sentence below from someone far more experienced than me sums up my gear musings!
From @cgundersen in the Longley Pass write up:
Yes, an ice axe would have helped, but I avoid carrying one so that I am not tempted to do stupid things for which I'm ill prepared.
This pearl of wisdom is definitely something I am thinking about in this whole thread!

Best ~ Michaelzim

[TurboHike]

michaelzim,

Here's a couple of videos to get you started:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuLdCv8g80g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swfIymzOhJg

When I go solo early in the season, I plan the trip to avoid dangerous water crossings.

I hike with poles and I cannot imagine doing even ankle/shin high crossings without the poles for balance. The rocks are slippery!

[Wandering Daisy]

I resisted trekking poles for years, often sharing my husband's poles when I crossed creeks. Then I got poles, learned to use them correctly, and never looked back. The benefits far outweigh the initial awkwardness.

It takes many days/weeks of actual practice with an ice axe to become proficient enough to use in a real situation. Then you need annual refreshers. I agree that if you are not into making the skill instinctual, stay away from ever needing them.

[paul]

A couple things: first, get used to judging the angle of a slope on the topo map. I did some math and made a paper scale which allowed me to read slope angle based on the spacing of the contour lines. Very useful in planning a route. Regarding microspikes, they are designed for icy trails. For which, they are great. Also good off the trail on gentle slopes. But they are not designed for, and do not do well on, steep hard snow because of the short spikes. So, route selection is paramount. You dont always need traction devices, since for a good portion of the day the snow is usually softened. But, the best time to make miles is early when the snow is hard; the softer it gets the slower you will go. So you need something. And real crampons, while just the thing for steep stuff, are not so great on easier ground, and a real pain in a situation where sections of icy stuff are separated by patches of bare ground or bare trail.
Also, you can get used to planning the day so that you are on easy ground when it is iciest, and on steeper stuff when it has softened, and camped before mid afternoon so you avoid the worst postholing. Have done similar timing for backcountry ski trips, though the priorities are slightly different; we aim to go up the pass in the morning and come down the other side late morning or early afternoon when the corn is ripe.