Section of Trail from Pine Creek Pass, Over Italy Pass, to JMT

[billygoat]

I'm considering a loop out of North Lake that goes over Pine Creek Pass and Italy Pass. My map shows an unmaintained trail from Honeymoon Lake to the JMT, and I've never been on any of it. I'm comfortable with route finding, but am hoping to move at a relatively quick pace through here. Is this section of trail easy to follow? Is it slow going, more like cross-country?

[Wandering Daisy]

There is a good use-trail up to Italy Pass from Honeymoon Lake. The upper part gets faint in places (I have been on it in the last few years). The west side has/had a "trail" but it is hard to find. Spend some time finding it on the top, otherwise you can get way off. A gps is helpful. I have been able to stay on the trail in the past but have not been on it in over 15 years. If you miss it down by Jumble Lake the talus is horrible. The continuing trail down to JMT is in good shape but goes missing a few times. Just plan for some extra time to find the trail on the west side of Italy Pass down to the lake.

[PBJames]

I was up there a couple weeks ago. The trail is easy to follow above Honeymoon lake, well ducked where needed, until the upper reaches of granite park. I lost the trail around 11,900ft near the last lake below Italy pass, but didn't have any trouble making it up to the pass anyway. Didn't go down to the JMT from there

[Bradg]

Just got back from Honeymoon Lake yesterday. We day hiked into Granite Park. It's not too difficult to Italy Pass, but beyond to Lake Italy seemed like a lot of talus, so I doubt you will be able to travel quickly to Italy and beyond until you reach the meadows of the Hilgard Branch. North Lake to Pine Creek pass is pretty straight forward. You could save a lot of time using Puppet Pass, bypassing French Canyon.

Hope this helps

[SSSdave]

One really does not need to follow a "trail" in such places that are abundant in the High Sierra. Long before reaching a location a person should have developed a habit of looking at that topo so they will know how to use it when needed. If one knows how to use a map, following the general route from Granite Park to Lake Italy is trivial because any landmarks are obvious. What one then must contend with is figuring out an efficient route through the small details that don't show up on maps anyway. Generally the trail from Lake Italy to the JMT is similar to the light use trail from Honeymoon Lake to Granite Park.

To do that use Goggle Earth 3D, GE. One will see a few parts of the route through areas with soil and meadow while most of that route is glaciated bedrock with piles of rocks and talus. Use those trail visible locations and the Caltopo Map Builder Topo route to understand the general position of routes. Yes on the ground, one will likely see endless useless ducks everywhere and unless one is on the obvious main route, they ought be kicked over. The likelihood a duck is useful is inversely related to a person's experience and likelihood they have a duck placing habit, quack quack.

Now if one looks at the noted above, one will see the crux of difficulty is the talus near Jumble Lake. There is a reason the route is well above the north side of the lake which becomes obvious when looking at the Jumble area. Snow on the south side will always last longest and there is an unstable rock glacier to cross. Close to the lake on the north side is a sea of small to medium sized talus while higher up at the trail is just small rubble and scree. But understand lakes are like irresistible magnets to many visitors not using their map that will choose a ducked route down to Jumble and from there they receive their unpleasant reward.

[Lumbergh21]

Going in the other direction 3 years ago, I lost the trail a couple of times below Lake Italy, but it was easy enough to pick back up. Then I chose poorly in my route around Jumble Lake as mentioned above, getting into the talus mess that gives the lake its name. On the other hand, my route did allow me to see 5 ptarmagin. Between Jumble and Lake 11,900, the path seemed pretty obvious to me. After a sleepless night (very windy) a little ways below Lake 11,900, I really lost the route following some cairns, the last few of which I angrily knocked over while backtracking. Lack of sleep might have had something to do with that though as well.

[Wandering Daisy]

You cannot judge the nature of talus just by looking at Google Earth. I beg to differ that it is all "small to medium sized". It is certainly "do-able", just a matter of how much time it will take you. Finding a good route through talus takes some experience- do enough and you should develop some good skills. Camping on the shores of Lake Italy can be very windy. the long NW-SE valley about 2 miles below Lake Italy outlet is really beautiful, with good campsites.

[SSSdave]

You cannot judge the nature of talus just by looking at Google Earth. I beg to differ that it is all "small to medium sized"...

I can though some others may not so am guessing that is what you mean. Generally its simply a matter of looking at the size of boulders that is quite obvious.

SSSdave >>>"Close to the lake on the north side is a sea of small to medium sized talus..."

That is true until one reaches the south end of the lake that coming down from the pass per the OP is what they will see at the east end long before large talus is evident.

[ExploreABitMore]

Agree with others, its highly desirable to find the trail for getting by Jumble Lake. Other than that specific area, I felt like it wasn't a big deal to lose the trail on either side because the x-ctry is fairly pleasant.

Calving snowbanks can be an obstacle for skirting by Lake Italy, even late into the season. Mostly just a morning problem when they're icy. Doubt it's a problem this year. They show up on Cal Topo's Sentinel Weekly Satellite imagery if they're still around.