Bearing the cost of Rescue

[c9h13no3]

The risk of contracting COVID during a rescue is pretty negligible compared to the risks SAR members already take. There's usually a couple SAR deaths per year because of objective hazards (rockfall, falling off stuff, ect).

Yeah, people should probably be responsible for the cost of a rescue if they're negligent. Problem is, that's a pretty slippery slope. Everyone has different standards of what is too risky, establishing a legal precedent for rock climbing or whatever being a negligent activity could have a lot of bad consequences. The couple that caused that slide on Independance peak earlier this week seemed dumb to me, hitting an obvious avalanche path at 11AM on the first couple hot days of the year. But I've also been on a slope that's starting to get wet before, and decided it wasn't *quite* over my boot tops yet and the slope was stable enough to keep going.

[zacjust32]

Worked with a guy who does a lot of SAR and lived in Germany for quite a few years, this was his experience. Apparently in Europe SAR is done by professionals who are paid and trained to perform the service in adverse weather and environments (think the Alps). It is expected that all hikers, skiers, adventurers carry travelers insurance to pay when something does happen. They have helicopters, snowmobiles, etc at their disposal and are very professional; the paramedics of the wilderness. Is this a better system, I don't know. He had a lot of perspective in this area and we talked about it at length.

It's hard to toe the line between individual responsibility and the role of the managing agency. For example, if there is a steep, icy section of trail and people have historically slipped, fallen, or had to be rescued there, what is the proper response of the managing agency?
A) Close it and avoid the risk of SAR or death.
B) Leave it open and give the individual the right to decide what to do (and so put SAR and unaware/inexperienced hikers at risk).
C) Have some sort of skills assessment dictating who can enter (extremely hard to put in place or enforce).
D) Some other idea???

Deciding who will pay is a whole other thing because is assigns blame onto a party. And a pretty slippery slope as c9h13no3 said. If someone was to die on this steep icy trail that the managing agency knew was historically dangerous but there was no sign posted and no warning given, that is a lot of liability on the agency. It's tough to argue that the victim should pay for that in my eyes.

There is a huge spectrum of cases and it's difficult to make a law on this without considering all the situations. What if Johnny Husband is a day late and Wendy Wife calls SAR on him when he's just taking his time. Who pays for that? Each decision on payment is precedent that could be used later. Way too slippery of a slope for me. But it can be interesting to discuss (civilly).

[Jimr]

I've been trying to find civil words for my opinion on this subject, but I can't find any except; I'm against it.

[schmalz]

The thing is, the SAR community is adamantly against the idea of people being charged for rescue. I choose to honor their opinion on this matter and acquiesce to their judgement.

[rlown]

Wendy Wife shouldn't call. Simple rule: If I'm two days late, then call. I'm probably enjoying the trip.

SAR is great, but they also have families/limits to protect. I respect that. If you go out with the current rules, you have to be responsible for yourself and only hit the inreach button if you or your dog has a traveling/medical issue. I'm good with the current structure.
Free rescue and then pay for the medical attention if required. Dog has better insurance than I do.

[Wandering Daisy]

The question is who actually does pay now? A lot of costs are donated, including sometimes helicopter time from nearby military bases who view this as practice. And rescue teams take donations from the public. I believe, what is left over is paid by the county; not sure it is the one in which the accident happened or the one where the victim lives, or is it shared? Given that counties were cash-strapped at any case, now add the loss of revenue to counties due to COVID-19, and I do not think the current system is sustainable.

At any rate, it seems like a disjointed system, which may have worked well in the past. Technology has enabled more to enter the wilderness, and a greater proportion of those unqualified. Add to that the social media that glorifies risky routes and practices and you have more rescues per wilderness visitor than in the past. And the attitude, " if I do something stupid all I have to do is push this help button" does not help either. This is overwhelming the old system.

Source of funding? The very profitable technology companies that make gadgets that enable this should have some tax on each item that goes directly to rescue costs. Maybe also a minimal tax on outdoor equipment specifically to build up a rescue fund. Perhaps a tax on tourist revenues. Perhaps a small fee on all permits (like the conservation stamp when you buy a fishing license). A bit of a quagmire in administering such a thing- Federal government agencies? states? counties?

I too like the idea of rescue insurance. But then if the victim is not charged, there is little incentive to buy insurance. It is like health insurance- unless everyone buys into it, the costs would be unreasonably high.

[CAMERONM]

It is my understanding that in the Sierra a certain amount of helicopter time is purchased each season, so the dirty secret is that you will make it out without a charge. But I have also read that the real financial danger is landing in one spot, and then the determination that you need to go to another place..in a hurry, and that second ride could be quite expensive. I believe that American Alpine Club membership could take care of that.

[zacjust32]

It is my understanding that in the Sierra a certain amount of helicopter time is purchased each season, so the dirty secret is that you will make it out without a charge. But I have also read that the real financial danger is landing in one spot, and then the determination that you need to go to another place..in a hurry, and that second ride could be quite expensive. I believe that American Alpine Club membership could take care of that.

(I can't claim to be 100% accurate in this, but as per the 2019 contract season this is what I've been told as an employee) In SEKI the helicopter is leased for the season by SEKIFIRE. The Helitac crew get paid regardless of flight time as part of the lease. There is an up-front cost to get the pilot in the air (which SEKIFIRE pays for) then additional cost-per-hour for fuel. The initial up-front cost is highest (don't remember exact number) and the hourly operating cost is (relatively) cheap after that. Once the bird is flying it's best to do as much as you can in the day. When we were flying supplies out to Bearpaw HS Camp we would sometimes coordinate with other departments needing hauls lower the $/flight.

Don't know how other agencies do it, but for SEKI # of flights or landing spots doesn't matter.

[rlown]

Just an example for Sonoma:

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Featured snippet from the web
$4050 per hour
Operating Henry 1 costs $4050 per hour, the Sheriff's Office said Thursday, disclosing a number it did not provide Wednesday. The round-trip flight time to and from the winery was about 12 minutes, equating to $810, the department clarified on Thursday.Feb 6, 2020

[bobby49]

Back in the old days 30-40 years ago, I used to lead a lot of group backpacking trips in Yosemite. Back then it was my understanding that it was important for us to have a valid wilderness permit and to be doing some normal activity. Then, if something completely accidental happened and we had to get rescued, then _in_all_likelihood_ the rescue expense would be covered by the park service, at least for the _first_ rescue. OTOH, if we did not have a valid permit, or if we were doing something that we should not be doing, or in some place where we should not have been, then the rescue cost probably would not be covered. I think back then the first visit to the Yosemite Valley clinic was free also, as long as we were completely legal.