Day hiking with overnight gear

[Shawn]

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[Wandering Daisy]

With all the "fast and light" UL backpackers out there now, it is hard to tell from anyones pack if they are day-hiking or backpacking. Just do not use your old external frame Kelty.

[RichardCullip]

With all the "fast and light" UL backpackers out there now, it is hard to tell from anyones pack if they are day-hiking or backpacking. Just do not use your old external frame Kelty.

A few years ago I was day hiking up to a high country lake in the Eastern Sierra with my old external frame Kelty and was stopped by a ranger. My pack was stuffed to the gills with my float tube and the misc gear needed to safely inflate it, launch it and kick arond the lake with my fly gear. It just took a short friendly conversation with the ranger to explain what I was doing and he let me continue on to my destination without having to unpacking my pack to prove what I was up to. I even caught a few nice trout that day.

[longri]

Sure, it's easy to carry overnight gear in a daypack. If I wanted to I could pretty easily go without a permit most of the time both because I can carry my gear in a daypack (sans bear canister) and because encounters with rangers are few and far between. And they are generally reasonable people. Not only that, I really don't need to carry out my garbage, observe fire rules, or even bury my feces. The odds of enforcement are so low.

But that's not what I was asking about.

[Shawn]

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[limpingcrab]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the question (at least for Yosemite) answered at the bottom of page 1?

Superintendent's Compendium, p.16:

With the exception of people on big wall climbs, all persons who wish to sleep overnight, camp, bivouac, or are in possession of equipment designed for overnight use in the wilderness/backcountry, must obtain and carry with them at all times a wilderness permit (one permit per group).

As far as SEKI goes, I've read just about every document I've been able to find and never saw anything like that, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

I do know that a ranger told me he was frustrated trying to catch illegal marijuana growers because "there's no rule about what you can carry on a day hike." He was referring to stopping people that had rolls of irrigation hose, gardening tools, and other strange items but was not allowed to cite or detain them because it's not explicitly stated that you can't hike with those things. Crazy, but that's what he said.

[balzaccom]

Couldn't you solve the problem by getting a permit for your dayhike? That permit would specify tralhead and route, and eliminate any confusion with a Backcountry ranger...

And yeah, I know the wilderness office doesn't usually issue such permits. But why not request one and let them solve the problem for you,?

[longri]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the question (at least for Yosemite) answered at the bottom of page 1?

Superintendent's Compendium, p.16:

With the exception of people on big wall climbs, all persons who wish to sleep overnight, camp, bivouac, or are in possession of equipment designed for overnight use in the wilderness/backcountry, must obtain and carry with them at all times a wilderness permit (one permit per group).

What?? I must have been blind yesterday. I don't know how I missed that very obvious answer to the question.

Now one could say it isn't specific enough about defining exactly what constitutes "equipment designed for overnight use" but I think if I were ticketed while in possession of a quilt, pad, and tarp it would be an uphill slog to convince a judge those items weren't designed for overnight use.

As far as SEKI goes, I've read just about every document I've been able to find and never saw anything like that, but that doesn't mean it's not there.

Thanks. I appreciate the information even if it isn't definitive.

[Wandering Daisy]

Could we be blowing this out of proportion? I am amazed that anyone would day hike with overnight gear anyway. If you want to be mascochistic, haul a six-pack of beer - at least you would have some fun. I do see legitamate reasons for hauling some odd stuff on a day-hike but the intent should be pretty obvious. And for the parinoid or anxious, there is a level of equipment for basic survival (such as the old "10 essentials") - full on overnight gear not needed. After all there is a difference between survival and comfort. In fact, most day-hikers I meet are woefully underprepared, if anything (how about nothing but shorts and a tank top for an all day hike).

I get it that we do not like authorities telling us what we can put in our day pack. I do not think rangers actually want to micro-manage our packs, it is just that their experience is that most backpacers without overnight permits and with sleeping bags have NOT been day-hikers. We all know that getting stopped by a ranger, particularly if we are off-trail or on less popular trails, is not likely. But with any society based on laws (or rules), we stakeholders have to buy into the intent of the regulations (even if not the specifics); there is never be enough enforcement short of a police state if we do not cooperate. It is sort of our responsibility in a democracy to do our fair share of compliance. Not saying I am an angel as I have stretched the intent of the regulations a few times myself. Personally, if I wanted to train with a full pack, I would do so without a permit, choosing some less popular trail, and hope for the best, or at least a reasonable ranger if I were to run into one, and take my lumps if needed. I definitely would not take an overnight permit on a popular trail that would cut someone out of a real trip. I would consider getting an overnight permit if I knew that the trail I were on never filled the quota.

[longri]

Couldn't you solve the problem by getting a permit for your dayhike? That permit would specify tralhead and route, and eliminate any confusion with a Backcountry ranger...

And yeah, I know the wilderness office doesn't usually issue such permits. But why not request one and let them solve the problem for you,?

It's not always so easy to just get a permit. The quotas for some trailheads fill up. In many cases actually obtaining the permit means a late start which is problematic for long day hikes. One could also start the next day but that's a lot of inconvenience for a day hike.

If it's the rule, then fine, I'll comply with it. But I'd rather not jump through a hoop unnecessarily.