Day hiking with overnight gear

[ndpanda]

Yep, a sleeping bag is just about the only item of gear solely "designed for overnight use." Tents and tarps can be justified for sun/wind/bug protection during breaks on day trips, especially long ones. Cold weather hikers may want a stove to brew up a hot drink or lunch. A headlamp serves as a safety precaution in case things go south on any trip. If you carried all those things along with the parka, powder pants, and booties you'd still be within the current regulations.

[longri]

Nowhere in the extremely detailed Compendium is there a stipulation as to what day hikers may or may not carry.

That's interesting. Is there anyway to prove this? No offense, but reading this from someone posting on the internet carries less weight than the multiple statements to the contrary that I've heard from Yosemite wilderness rangers.

[longri]

And just for the record, I wasn't asking so I could carry my gear for a workout. If I wanted to do that I'd just load up gallons of water. The reasons I have in the past carried my overnight gear were (a) for getting back to my car after a backpacking trip, and (b) for day hikes where I was going to need my camping gear for front country camping.

[maverick]

Longri wrote:
That's interesting. Is there anyway to prove this? No offense, but reading this from someone posting on the internet carries less weight than the multiple statements to the contrary that I've heard from Yosemite wilderness rangers.

Hi Longri,

If you read Panda's original post, in which there is a link added to the Superintendents Compendium, it doesn't get more official then that.

[longri]

If you read Panda's original post, in which there is a link added to the Superintendents Compendium, it doesn't get more official then that.

Well, admittedly, and embarrassingly, I glossed over most of his post and missed the link. But it doesn't change my question. I don't know what constitutes the entirety of Yosemite regulations. Is it possible that there are additional rules not included in the Superintendent's Compendium?

I vaguely recall one of the rangers I spoke with refer to some sort of "technical" rule. I don't remember the words exactly but the impression I came away with was that it was a kind of add-on rule. Maybe that means it's B.S. Or not. I can't say.

Since the backcountry LEOs believe they are empowered to enforce this rule, whether it's valid or not, it's a threat to anyone who chooses to challenge it. I don't want to have to win a case in Yosemite court.

[AlmostThere]

It is specified in the Compendium, specifically, that if you arrive in the park on public transportation, you can stay in the backpacker camps without the wilderness permit. When I tell people that, I recommend printing the Compendium to show park staff, because people have tried it and been tossed out of the backpacker camp.

It is also illegal to use bear spray, and yet, the camp host in Bridalveil told my group (starting at that trailhead heading to Ostrander Lake) that it was perfectly legal. I have corrected folks over the phone when I've talked to them about things... wilderness office staff are sometimes wrong about the rules as well.

It pays to know not only the rule, but where it is, and have a way of accessing it easily....

[maverick]

Since the backcountry LEOs believe they are empowered to enforce this rule, whether it's valid or not, it's a threat to anyone who chooses to challenge it. I don't want to have to win a case in Yosemite court.

I will try and get clarification on this matter by the end of the week Longri.

[longri]

I will try and get clarification on this matter by the end of the week Longri.

Thank you. Seriously. I've wondered about this for many years.


The rule is generally accepted as fact on the yahoo jmt group. I figured it was true. But maybe not.

It's still a tricky thing though, if rangers believe they can use it. What are you going to do if confronted in the backcountry by an LEO who insists you must have a permit? Are you going to whip out a copy of the Compendium? It's ludicrous to think you can win a legal argument with an officer who has his/her sights on you.

Ultimately you may prevail in court. One wilderness ranger I talked to actually suggested I intentionally get ticketed and challenge the rule in court. He didn't mean challenge it in the sense that it wasn't a rule but that it was an unfair rule.

I'd rather not to go to Yosemite court. Someone else can be a martyr for this cause.
And my original question actually is about other places, Inyo and SEKI in particular.

[Shawn]

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[longri]

Since the backcountry LEOs believe they are empowered to enforce this rule, whether it's valid or not, it's a threat to anyone who chooses to challenge it. I don't want to have to win a case in Yosemite court.

The Code of Federal Regulations was created with the intent of empowering local federal employees to enforce the Rules consistent with current practices, policies and administrative directives. Quite unlike a vehicle code book or penal code, both of which have well defined criteria and specifics, the CFR's lack details simply because it is too far reaching and broad in scope - in other words, the specifics would not fit into any library. Consequently, lower level directives are created, in this case a "compilation" which is subject to change based on the superintendents desires.

I'm afraid I'm too stupid to understand what you just posted. What are saying? That the rule must be false? That it could be true? Or something else?

If you're really concerned about it, you can always stop and get a cup of coffee on the way in and save the time stamped receipt in your pocket as proof you didn't stay the night.

First off, I'm not really that concerned. National Forest rangers are an endangered species. If you come across one make sure and get a selfie with him/her. National Park rangers are easier to find but most of them are reasonable people.

When I've had encounters while day hiking with overnight gear it wasn't in the parking lot at the end of the day. So a Starbucks receipt wouldn't help. I've encountered rangers in the backcountry in the middle of the day where it was not at all clear that I wasn't someone who was planning to camp illegally. I can sympathize with the spirit of this supposed rule and, although it pissed me off at first, I'm no long sure I oppose it. I just want to know if it is in fact a rule in Inyo, SEKI, and elsewhere. And I'm also interested to know if it really is a rule in Yosemite.

Even if I disagree with a law I still have respect for the rule of law.... most of the time.

36CFR1.6(f)(7–1–12 Edition)
(f) A compilation of those activities
requiring a permit shall be maintained
by the superintendent and available to
the public upon request.

How do you request it?