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which backpacking stove to use

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Re: which backpacking stove to use

Postby Alpine high » Thu May 09, 2013 7:15 pm

I guess I'll have to check out the video since my stove hasn't arrived yet, thanks for the update, now back to the Giants game



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Re: which backpacking stove to use

Postby rlown » Thu May 09, 2013 7:20 pm

i still stand with the white gas crowd. I love my stove, and fire is fire, regardless of the fuel. heck, the 151 i carry is as flammable. not like granite stone is gonna burst into flames.

Think that we actually cook.
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Re: which backpacking stove to use

Postby Scouter9 » Fri May 10, 2013 8:02 am

longri wrote:
Scouter9 wrote:Hey, white gas is getting squeezed out, anyway: many local jurisdictions and Scout camps now restrict against liquid fuel stoves and lanterns.

... What local jurisdictions have banned white gas stoves? And ... Boy Scouts of America... ?


Several campground administered by the County of San Diego, and campgrounds in the State Parks system now post signage in red-flag periods that restrict against liquid fuel stoves and lanterns (and wood fires, of course). I've been in camp with my mantle lantern on and had the discussion with Rangers in Laguna, making me far more aware of what's being posted and the evolution of ideas. These restrictions are fire-safety based and have nothing to do with the efficacy of the stoves. I expect that we're not on the leading edge, but rather that other Counties and regions are doing the same. This is consistent with the Ranger's understanding.

BSA camps, including Mataguay Scout Ranch, Lost Valley, Cherry Valley, Holcomb Valley, Chawanakee, Whitsett and others, now restrict against white gas stoves and lanterns, allowing only canister propane, canister isobutane and LED (lanterns). The restrictions are within the discretion and autonomy of the local Councils and are based in safety concerns regarding use of white gas and fire-season. These restrictions are safety based and have nothing to do with efficacy of the stove or lantern.

On top of this, as you may or may not know, alcohol stoves, such as the cat-stove, etc... are also on a variation of the Ban List. Specifically, the first version of the rule bans home-made stoves but appears to have a carve-out for commercially made stoves such as the Vargo ti alcohol stoves and, it would seem, any home made soda can stove that somebody markets and sells on the internet... This restriction is purely safety-based, and has nothing to do with efficacy of the stove.

Notwithstanding my frustration with reduced ability to use my old Coleman two-burner and lanterns, I perceive a move in "fire country" that will direct more users to stoves with canned propane, butane and isobutane. In fact, our Troop's patrols are outfitted with two types of stove: "table top" butane stoves and Olicamp remote canister isobutanes.

It's a brave new world, so hang onto your wild-eyed, white gas rebel status while you can. It's way better than a pony tail --easier, too. :) I'll be the fellow over in the next campsite with my Coleman lantern and a "cold dead fingers speech" going.
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Re: which backpacking stove to use

Postby longri » Fri May 10, 2013 9:49 am

Red flag? You mean high fire danger periods? In New South Wales, Australia they total fire bans during such periods. You can go to jail for lighting a stove, even a canister stove!

I was wondering if local BSA groups could have tighter restrictions. Thanks for explaining that.

I don't really get the sense that white gas stoves are going to be widely prohibited anytime soon.

I went on a trip in the Sierra with a friend a couple of weeks ago. We took his stove, an MSR white gas model. It weighed a little more than my canister setup does I suppose, I'm not sure how much, some number of ounces. It wasn't a big deal.
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Re: which backpacking stove to use

Postby rlown » Fri May 10, 2013 11:27 am

a canister is still liquid fuel. it's about vaporization as it hit's the stove. If it was a pure gas, it would weigh nothing.
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Re: which backpacking stove to use

Postby longri » Fri May 10, 2013 3:44 pm

Sure, it's almost all liquid inside the canister, but it's gaseous when it comes out of the canister. It doesn't have to "hit the stove". Unless you're using it in an inverted mode in which case it does vaporize later.

I think there is a perception that canister stoves are simpler to use and less likely to result in unwanted flames. My own experience bears this out. I've seen plenty of small fires due to white gas stoves (my very experienced friend started one a couple of weeks ago) and with alcohol stoves, but not from canister stoves. It can happen but it's a lot less common.
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Re: which backpacking stove to use

Postby rlown » Fri May 10, 2013 6:03 pm

we're probably way off topic by now. There are no regulations as i know that talk about fuel type (other than carrying in wood for a wood stove thingyy) above fire-deck. There are fire rules in the back country at elevation and that's it. I do not think the Coleman company is going to just stand aside and say, yes, it's a bad idea to allow our fuel to be carried into a wood-barren area. that is just stupid.

pick your favorite stove. I love white gas. others love cans. To each their own. What more do i want a ranger to check as their capabilities dwindle.

Some here might not even be comfortable with white gas stoves, and that's fine. I started lighting them when I was 7. that was a long, long time ago. If you think a screw Assembly and a quick flame meets your needs, cool. It's really about what you do with it. I can simmer. I like that about my white gas stove.

You really have to pick your approach out there, and then pick the right stove.
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Re: which backpacking stove to use

Postby Scouter9 » Fri May 10, 2013 8:31 pm

So much angst. :retard:

Some of us have many, many years on white gas stoves ranging from table top Colemans to old Optimus and MSR stoves, probably more than a few Svea vets around here, too. That the fuel is versatile and powerful is well-known. That it's liquid, it spills and results in accidents by the great unwashed masses who are not nearly as enlightened as anyone registered to post here... well, that's why even the stove and lantern manufacturers are producing less of the white gas rigs and more canister stoves. It's also why some jurisdictions are looking at yet another regulation they can throw our way.

If you want to be a luddite and use the old, heavy stove and it makes you feel good not to know that I can simmer, steam and saute' more easily with a canister backpacking stove than a white gas rig (certainly not including my Coleman 2-burner), and I can boil faster because the canister puts out more BTU, and all the chicks dig me because I have the hot new stove, well that's totally cool. Go for it! As long as you feel good, we can all agree the world is flat.

If you're not comfortable using a canister stove, that's okay, too. The kids will take care of it. Now pardon me, but I have to go flip the record.
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Re: which backpacking stove to use

Postby AlmostThere » Fri May 10, 2013 8:49 pm

Scouter9 wrote: I can boil faster because the canister puts out more BTU, and all the chicks dig me because I have the hot new stove, well that's totally cool. Go for it! As long as you feel good, we can all agree the world is flat.


Now you're just being ridiculous...

Who cares how fast you boil the water?

Are you racing someone?

BTW, you don't know what "chicks" dig. It sure ain't a stove.
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Re: which backpacking stove to use

Postby Scouter9 » Sun May 12, 2013 1:44 pm

=D> Chicks dig fast stoves and hot chocolate. Everyone knows that. :nod:

Speed to boil does matter to some folks, including me: in those times when it's cold out, when one desires hot water sooner than later, when it's windy and raining, it's nice to have a stove that "goes to eleven". This is why many of us use(d) the venerable XGK white gas stove, for example. Based on personal experience using a variety of fuels and stoves, I appreciate that my canister stove can simmer low *and* boil fast, as desired.

If you never need or want to boil fast, that's cool. De Colores.
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