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Wandering Daisy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 2:54 pm
I have been able to get same-day permits (cancelled reserved permits) from the Lone Pine Inyo NF office in person. Anyone know if this is still done?
Call the Inyo NF office to make sure Walk-ins can be picked up in person without a Rec.gov Reservation number. Sierra NF can not issue a Wilderness Permit to you in their field office (Prather) without the Rec.gov number even if there are plenty of Permits available. This happened to me last year, I showed up at the office knowing there were plenty of Permits but was told they could not issue a Permit without a reservation number. Luckily there was good cell coverage and I had the Rec.gov app on my cell phone.
I would be all for Bishop drainage Permits go to a Lottery type system like Whitney. Not sure why that hasn't happened already, the technology is there and they know it's a circus the way it is being done now.
Yes, thanks for reminding me: I already had a permit from the lottery, but it was to climb some peaks but my partner bailed so I exchanged it for a new one- a loop to Precipice Lake and back. It was nothing like the original but that did not seem to matter.
Wandering Daisy wrote: ↑Mon Feb 19, 2024 2:54 pm
I like the Yosemite system of lottery for everyone. This puts everyone on equal footing, not favoring the more computer savvy. Since the Whitney Zone is also a lottery, that is another trailhead worth trying for. I have been able to get same-day permits (cancelled reserved permits) from the Lone Pine Inyo NF office in person. Anyone know if this is still done?
Have you looked at the Yosemite Lottery system? It's $10 to enter the lottery for a permit; just to enter, not for the permit. If you "win the lottery" then you pay an additional $5 for the permit itself. If you lose the lottery, then you just lost $10. Given the low success rate at getting a Yosemite permit exiting over Donahue (JMT) permit, this seems like a pretty good money maker for Recreation.gov. I'm certain that I will not be starting any hikes in Yosemite. I'm also pretty confident that they will roll at the same system for Inyo trailheads as well in the near future in order to increase revenues...for Recreation.gov, not for the parks/wilderness.
I have mixed feelings about the $10 non-refundable fee. I was under the impression that most of the lottery money goes to Yosemite, only some kept by reserve.gov to cover expenses. Nevertheless, when all money is refundable that simply encourages people to over-apply. The non-refundable fee makes me really analyze my plans- is this really what I want to do? Is this really the time I want? if there is no monetary hit, the system gets abused.
You get three trailhead choices, so if going for a route that has a low chance of success, put in less used trailheads for second and third choices. But be sure these are trips you really want to do. Do not assume you will not get your #1 choice. Last year I assumed that I could not get a Happy Isles/LYV permit so put in a pass-through for my first choice. When I got to LYV I was beat, weather was bad, and really wanted stay there but had go on several more miles. And LYV was nearly empty.
Live and learn. I think we will all make lots of mistakes and bad choices until we get all this figured out.
Wandering Daisy wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:15 am
I was under the impression that most of the lottery money goes to Yosemite, only some kept by reserve.gov to cover expenses.
This isn't correct, Booz Allen Hamilton keeps the majority. In general, BAH keeps the money you pay for entering the lottery and the park gets the money for issuing a wilderness permit (BAH is running the lottery, the park is running the wilderness).
Another way to look at it is they are capitalizing on the demand for certain permits, JMT being the real "money maker", and turning a public trust into a money making venture. From what I have been able to find, Booz Allen - the company that has operated Recreation.gov for the NPS, BLM, etc since 2016 - collects all application processing fees. Only the permit fee itself, $5 in the case of Yosemite, goes to the public entity. Booz Allen has stated that the claims made by plaintiffs in a civil suit brought against them that the "allegations are grossly inaccurate and reflect a fundamental lack of understanding of Booz Allen's work supporting the government." I couldn't find anywhere what is the truth according to Booze Allen. I do see that they lost a lawsuit regarding a $2 fee charged for access to Red Rock NRA, where the judge rejected all of their arguments for why they can charge whatever they want without going through the process required for establishing fees for access to public lands.
It was also interesting that the USFS requested $120 million in their 2021 budget for an "interagency funded contract [that] supports reservations for all recreation facilities on public lands that allow reservations." Sounds like Recreation.gov to me. So the USFS is not only not receiving these fees, they are evidently paying Booze Allen to run it on top of the fees that they collect and retain. In 2022 Booze Allen reported that more than 95% of their business is government contracts and they had $8.4B in profits. Bringing it back to Yosemite, if we are to believe Yosemite NP, in 2016 over 98% of applications for a JMT permit were rejected. I think it is safe to assume that the number of people applying has not decreased. So, with 45 permits issued per day, that means there are at least 2,250 applications. Let's assume a peak application period of 10 weeks and since an application is good for 1 week, we'll just call it 22,500 applications. In reality it is greater, both because additional applications are filed on a Monday, Tuesday, etc. and there will be additional applications outside those 10 weeks. But just the JMT applications will bring in over $225,000 for Booze Allen. By the way, the fees for the issued permits would be 70 days X 45 permits per day X $5 per permit, a total of $15,750 for Yosemite. Finally, in 2020, Booz Allen generated $8.8M in campsite reservation cancellation fees alone. All of that money goes to Booz Allen.
This permitting system just keeps getting more unusable every year. I read about the things people are going through to get a permit through recreation.gov, and it just gets worse every year. I thought I would go to the Meetup again this year. Fat chance, all permits gone. Perhaps two weeks out, things will be available for supposed walk up permits? I will give it a shot then, but I am not optimistic; it all gets a little tiresome. Is this really an improvement on what was done in the past, and is the wilderness really better off than it was before they instituted recreation.gov? Or do we even ask tough questions anymore? Perhaps this will be the year I finally drive to the Wind Rivers with my friend and save all the hassle of California backpacking.
Booz Hamilton gripe: From the office of public affairs US DoJ: "Booz Allen Hamilton Holding Corporation has agreed to pay the United States $377,453,150 to resolve allegations that it violated the False Claims Act by improperly billing commercial and international costs to its government contracts.... The settlement announced today resolves allegations that from approximately 2011 to 2021, Booz Allen improperly charged costs to its government contracts and subcontracts that instead should have been billed to its commercial and international contracts."
I'm sure they've back to being on the 'up and up' now.
thegib wrote: ↑Wed Feb 21, 2024 9:44 pm
Booz Hamilton gripe: From the office of public affairs US DoJ: "Booz Allen Hamilton Holding Corporation has agreed to pay the United States $377,453,150 to resolve allegations that it violated the False Claims Act by improperly billing commercial and international costs to its government contracts.... The settlement announced today resolves allegations that from approximately 2011 to 2021, Booz Allen improperly charged costs to its government contracts and subcontracts that instead should have been billed to its commercial and international contracts."
I'm sure they've back to being on the 'up and up' now.
If 2022 is any indication, $8.4B in PROFIT, I'm thinking they won't even notice that settlement.
