TR: A Trip That Bombed - August, 2022
- texan
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Re: TR: A Trip That Bombed - August, 2022
Thanks for sharing the pics of Bear Creek. I used to go there all the time but from Bear Diversion Dam TH. I don't know about Bear Creek Cutoff. But I like Bear creek for the fishing, thats where I caught my first golden trout when I was 16 in 1981. Hope the sleeping issue resolves too.
Texan
Texan
- michaelzim
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Re: TR: A Trip That Bombed - August, 2022
Thanks for all the comments!
I did wonder about writing a "negative" report, though did not personally see it as a negative trip. Yes it "bombed" in terms of not being a huge success, but I hope I portrayed that such mis-adventures are a great highlighter for just how good the good trips can be. Which clearly most of them are as I would not keep going into the high country if they were all "mooch and misery"!
Indeed, the lessons learned from such trips are invaluable and in many respects have enhanced my backpacking a great deal.
Some of you may recall another "difficult trip" I did back in 2020 tilted: A Ridge Too Far. The aftermath of that one was what got me from taking a 54 pound starting pack weight to the 28 pound start weight of my Bear Creek trip! Ha, ha...That huge reduction in load was purely due to the "no gain without pain" lessons learned trying to get over Coyote Pass with that monstrous amount of baggage. Incidentally, trip times for both trips was 7 to 9 days, so equivalent 'out time', but with nearly a 50% reduction in carry weight! Which is huge - and has allowed me to add many more years to my backpacking life.
So, all to say. The "bombers" can be really useful even though they may not be peaches and cream when in the bowl at the time.
Best ~ Michaelzim
I did wonder about writing a "negative" report, though did not personally see it as a negative trip. Yes it "bombed" in terms of not being a huge success, but I hope I portrayed that such mis-adventures are a great highlighter for just how good the good trips can be. Which clearly most of them are as I would not keep going into the high country if they were all "mooch and misery"!
Indeed, the lessons learned from such trips are invaluable and in many respects have enhanced my backpacking a great deal.
Some of you may recall another "difficult trip" I did back in 2020 tilted: A Ridge Too Far. The aftermath of that one was what got me from taking a 54 pound starting pack weight to the 28 pound start weight of my Bear Creek trip! Ha, ha...That huge reduction in load was purely due to the "no gain without pain" lessons learned trying to get over Coyote Pass with that monstrous amount of baggage. Incidentally, trip times for both trips was 7 to 9 days, so equivalent 'out time', but with nearly a 50% reduction in carry weight! Which is huge - and has allowed me to add many more years to my backpacking life.
So, all to say. The "bombers" can be really useful even though they may not be peaches and cream when in the bowl at the time.
Best ~ Michaelzim
- robertseeburger
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Re: TR: A Trip That Bombed - August, 2022
I enjoyed reading your post..
I think there are many of us who have had failed trips.. it comes with the territory..
With regard to getting older and trips, I remember an exchange I had a few years ago.. I believe it was with C Gunderson.
His number one recommendation was..stop trying to drive from the Bay Area and then hike the same day. Get a hotel ( east side) or camp at or near the trailhead. I think this is wise advice and I "try" to do this now.. I never did it while I was young. There is always a sleep issue the first day for me and many others..but this seems to help some..
Great summary though..
I think there are many of us who have had failed trips.. it comes with the territory..
With regard to getting older and trips, I remember an exchange I had a few years ago.. I believe it was with C Gunderson.
His number one recommendation was..stop trying to drive from the Bay Area and then hike the same day. Get a hotel ( east side) or camp at or near the trailhead. I think this is wise advice and I "try" to do this now.. I never did it while I was young. There is always a sleep issue the first day for me and many others..but this seems to help some..
Great summary though..
- SSSdave
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Re: TR: A Trip That Bombed - August, 2022
Most people with frequent insomnia have lifestyle issues they ignore. The first two below are most common though may not be @michaelzim issues. Personally this old backpacker is at the other extreme of planning and spontaneity during trips. And as such my trips tend to roll out smoothly just as I've extensively described on my public website though that does not mean some are productive as weather and conditions are always factors one may have little choice to avoid. Trips some have posted here do not at all read as pleasant especially death marches though almost all will state they enjoyed.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... c-20355167
snippets:
Caffeine, nicotine and alcohol [and rec drugs]. Coffee, tea, cola and other caffeinated drinks are stimulants. Drinking them in the late afternoon or evening can keep you from falling asleep at night. Nicotine in tobacco products is another stimulant that can interfere with sleep. Alcohol may help you fall asleep, but it prevents deeper stages of sleep and often causes awakening in the middle of the night.
Poor sleep habits. Poor sleep habits include an irregular bedtime schedule, naps, stimulating activities before bed, an uncomfortable sleep environment, and using your bed for work, eating or watching TV. Computers, TVs, video games, smartphones or other screens just before bed can interfere with your sleep cycle.
Common causes of chronic insomnia include:
Stress. Concerns about work, school, health, finances or family can keep your mind active at night, making it difficult to sleep. Stressful life events or trauma — such as the death or illness of a loved one, divorce, or a job loss — also may lead to insomnia.
Travel or work schedule. Your circadian rhythms act as an internal clock, guiding such things as your sleep-wake cycle, metabolism and body temperature. Disrupting your body's circadian rhythms can lead to insomnia. Causes include jet lag from traveling across multiple time zones, working a late or early shift, or frequently changing shifts.
Eating too much late in the evening. Having a light snack before bedtime is OK, but eating too much may cause you to feel physically uncomfortable while lying down. Many people also experience heartburn, a back flow of acid and food from the stomach into the esophagus after eating, which may keep you awake...
Mental health disorders. Anxiety disorders, such as post-traumatic stress disorder, may disrupt your sleep. Awakening too early can be a sign of depression. Insomnia often occurs with other mental health disorders as well.
Medications. Many prescription drugs can interfere with sleep, such as certain antidepressants and medications for asthma or blood pressure. Many over-the-counter medications — such as some pain medications, allergy and cold medications, and weight-loss products — contain caffeine and other stimulants that can disrupt sleep.
Medical conditions. Examples of conditions linked with insomnia include chronic pain, cancer, diabetes, heart disease, asthma, gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD), overactive thyroid, Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.
Sleep-related disorders. Sleep apnea causes you to stop breathing periodically throughout the night, interrupting your sleep. Restless legs syndrome causes unpleasant sensations in your legs and an almost irresistible desire to move them, which may prevent you from falling asleep.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-con ... c-20355167
snippets:
Caffeine, nicotine and alcohol [and rec drugs]. Coffee, tea, cola and other caffeinated drinks are stimulants. Drinking them in the late afternoon or evening can keep you from falling asleep at night. Nicotine in tobacco products is another stimulant that can interfere with sleep. Alcohol may help you fall asleep, but it prevents deeper stages of sleep and often causes awakening in the middle of the night.
Poor sleep habits. Poor sleep habits include an irregular bedtime schedule, naps, stimulating activities before bed, an uncomfortable sleep environment, and using your bed for work, eating or watching TV. Computers, TVs, video games, smartphones or other screens just before bed can interfere with your sleep cycle.
Common causes of chronic insomnia include:
Stress. Concerns about work, school, health, finances or family can keep your mind active at night, making it difficult to sleep. Stressful life events or trauma — such as the death or illness of a loved one, divorce, or a job loss — also may lead to insomnia.
Travel or work schedule. Your circadian rhythms act as an internal clock, guiding such things as your sleep-wake cycle, metabolism and body temperature. Disrupting your body's circadian rhythms can lead to insomnia. Causes include jet lag from traveling across multiple time zones, working a late or early shift, or frequently changing shifts.
Eating too much late in the evening. Having a light snack before bedtime is OK, but eating too much may cause you to feel physically uncomfortable while lying down. Many people also experience heartburn, a back flow of acid and food from the stomach into the esophagus after eating, which may keep you awake...
Mental health disorders. Anxiety disorders, such as post-traumatic stress disorder, may disrupt your sleep. Awakening too early can be a sign of depression. Insomnia often occurs with other mental health disorders as well.
Medications. Many prescription drugs can interfere with sleep, such as certain antidepressants and medications for asthma or blood pressure. Many over-the-counter medications — such as some pain medications, allergy and cold medications, and weight-loss products — contain caffeine and other stimulants that can disrupt sleep.
Medical conditions. Examples of conditions linked with insomnia include chronic pain, cancer, diabetes, heart disease, asthma, gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD), overactive thyroid, Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's disease.
Sleep-related disorders. Sleep apnea causes you to stop breathing periodically throughout the night, interrupting your sleep. Restless legs syndrome causes unpleasant sensations in your legs and an almost irresistible desire to move them, which may prevent you from falling asleep.
- Wandering Daisy
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Re: TR: A Trip That Bombed - August, 2022
I cannot sleep in a motel any better than in the tent so the motel money is a waste for me. I either go in a short distance, if the permit allows this, or find a nearby campground or dispersed camp area if I want to do a full first day. I have totally separate gear for car camping so I can leave my backpack ready to go first thing the next morning. Although I try to adhere to the permit entry date, if I feel I cannot be safe, I fudge a bit. For example, if I arrive mid-afternoon in a rainstorm or feel sick on my entry date, I car camp and go very early the next morning. I have not had to stick to a strict schedule since retiring years ago, and I really struggle with getting started on time. In the past I always used first-come permits written at the ranger station. I could just go when I finally got my act together. The new permit system makes this harder.
I see nothing wrong with deciding mid-trip that you just want to bail out. There is a fine line between bailing out due to anxiety and bailing out due to actual conditions. I can also really understand why you would stick it out if you have driven from a long distance or even flown from another part of the country. That is one disadvantage of backpacking in areas far from home.
SSS Dave, I do not have insomnia, just light sleep waking a lot. The only time I slept and woke up seemingly the next minute after 8 hours of sleep was when I took a sleeping pill on one of my international trips due to time change problems. Then I felt "cheated" out of part of my life! I kind of like to be aware of the 8 hours I am in the sleeping bag.
I see nothing wrong with deciding mid-trip that you just want to bail out. There is a fine line between bailing out due to anxiety and bailing out due to actual conditions. I can also really understand why you would stick it out if you have driven from a long distance or even flown from another part of the country. That is one disadvantage of backpacking in areas far from home.
SSS Dave, I do not have insomnia, just light sleep waking a lot. The only time I slept and woke up seemingly the next minute after 8 hours of sleep was when I took a sleeping pill on one of my international trips due to time change problems. Then I felt "cheated" out of part of my life! I kind of like to be aware of the 8 hours I am in the sleeping bag.
- Gogd
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Re: TR: A Trip That Bombed - August, 2022
I know of a few campers who fell down the rabbit hole of sustained fatigue, that took days to emerge from. In one instance it pinned the hiker down to staying at the Day 1 objective and took five days before eventually having other hikers summon the park ranger to send an outfitter to extract them. All of these instances probably could have been remedied if the campers were more proactive in addressing the underlying causes driving their fatigue.
A mistake campers often make when they fall into an exhaustion mode, is not aggressively countering the underlying causes. One cannot function on sparing snacks if lack of calories is the cause. Likewise insufficient hydration drives altitude sickness and fatigue. And both lack of food and water drive cold related factors like frostbite and hypothermia. Sometimes we can't get the sleep we need. It is still better to rest the body in bed than get up and become active. I bring ear plugs and a book to help counter insomnia. Some find smoking a bud help them unwind.
As for the OP's trip: Kaiser Pass Road is notorious, not recommended for those disinclined to endure hours of winding, very bumpy roads, or have issues with exposure. The ride is such, that by the end of any drive originating some distance from Fresno, it behooves one to take a stopover rest before hitting the trail.
As for me, two bad trips stand out.
A mistake campers often make when they fall into an exhaustion mode, is not aggressively countering the underlying causes. One cannot function on sparing snacks if lack of calories is the cause. Likewise insufficient hydration drives altitude sickness and fatigue. And both lack of food and water drive cold related factors like frostbite and hypothermia. Sometimes we can't get the sleep we need. It is still better to rest the body in bed than get up and become active. I bring ear plugs and a book to help counter insomnia. Some find smoking a bud help them unwind.
As for the OP's trip: Kaiser Pass Road is notorious, not recommended for those disinclined to endure hours of winding, very bumpy roads, or have issues with exposure. The ride is such, that by the end of any drive originating some distance from Fresno, it behooves one to take a stopover rest before hitting the trail.
As for me, two bad trips stand out.
- A JMT trip as a scout found me battling food poisoning on day 3 of a ten day hike. The next five days were a suffer-fest of fever dreams and forced marches. Lesson learned: Make sure camp cooks practice proper hand washing hygiene before handling food items.
- We did a 5+ week, early winter, High Sierra Traverse from the gate in Owens Valley on the road to Horseshoe Meadows, ending at Happy Isles. The entire trip we endured sustained wind and snow storms. The conditions were reminiscent of bad weather one can encounter on high altitude routes in Denali NP. Absolutely miserable. Ignorance is a stern schoolmarm. Lesson Learned: Early winter is not a good time to schedule long trips in the High Sierra.
Last edited by Gogd on Wed Feb 22, 2023 5:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
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- paul
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Re: TR: A Trip That Bombed - August, 2022
I am also on the "sleep at or near the trailhead" plan. I'll time my drive to ranger station hours for the permit pickup (if no night drop is possible), and either sleep in my van at the trailhead, or nearby. On trips to the east side, I have sometimes left the bay area at dinner time, driven to or near the pass I am crossing, and pulled off the road to sleep. Then I start driving again at first light, getting me to Bishop or Lee Vining close to when the ranger station opens to pick up my permit. Either way, I get a night at some altitude just before I start the trip, and I find that helpful for acclimatization, besides giving me a reasonably early start on the first day.
But I do recall the days, long ago, when I could drive through the night and start hiking at dawn with no ill effects. Missing one night's sleep just wasn't a big deal when I was young.
But I do recall the days, long ago, when I could drive through the night and start hiking at dawn with no ill effects. Missing one night's sleep just wasn't a big deal when I was young.
- Harlen
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Re: TR: A Trip That Bombed - August, 2022
WD and John wrote:
How many times have I had to tell someone: "I'll sleep when I'm dead."
Sorry to hear about this strikeout Michael-- another "epic" for your memoirs, I reckon. Glad you homered at Lamarck Park, on your next outing.
Here's a view of Bear Basin you were shooting for; it is a worthy goal, but stark as can be, as noted.
Sunrise.
Sunset.
Still wintery after a big snow year-- July, 2017
Me three. It does enhance ones reading pleasure though.Wandering Daisy wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 8:44 am
I sleep terribly both at home and on the trail; no different when I was young. I just accept it and stay calm and relaxed.
I've had trouble falling asleep all my life, just resigned myself to it. It does suck at times.
John
How many times have I had to tell someone: "I'll sleep when I'm dead."
Sorry to hear about this strikeout Michael-- another "epic" for your memoirs, I reckon. Glad you homered at Lamarck Park, on your next outing.
Here's a view of Bear Basin you were shooting for; it is a worthy goal, but stark as can be, as noted.
Sunrise.
Sunset.
Still wintery after a big snow year-- July, 2017
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- stevet
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Re: TR: A Trip That Bombed - August, 2022
Michael,
Thanks for sharing this, we all have trips where we fall short of our anticipation or expectations we have of ourselves. For me, I don't apply the blunt "bombed" label, and will usually say that I cut my trip short. Sometimes it is physical, sometimes nerves.
Your accepting that maybe driving all night and then hiking on little or no sleep resonates, even though I have yet to accept it for me. I get one Sierra "shot" a year flying in from the northeast. It's about 18 hrs from the time I wake until I arrive at Lone Pine, have usually a restless night, then start hiking. I drag more now than I did 10 years ago but fight through it to not lose my one Sierran adventure. I suspect the day will come when my situation mirrors yours and I have to decide: stop, or push on. I'll probably sit and cry for a bit when it's the dreaded answer.
Thanks for sharing this, we all have trips where we fall short of our anticipation or expectations we have of ourselves. For me, I don't apply the blunt "bombed" label, and will usually say that I cut my trip short. Sometimes it is physical, sometimes nerves.
Your accepting that maybe driving all night and then hiking on little or no sleep resonates, even though I have yet to accept it for me. I get one Sierra "shot" a year flying in from the northeast. It's about 18 hrs from the time I wake until I arrive at Lone Pine, have usually a restless night, then start hiking. I drag more now than I did 10 years ago but fight through it to not lose my one Sierran adventure. I suspect the day will come when my situation mirrors yours and I have to decide: stop, or push on. I'll probably sit and cry for a bit when it's the dreaded answer.
- Bishop_Bob
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Re: TR: A Trip That Bombed - August, 2022
Meanwhile, Stenziano just dropped another bombed trip on YouTube. The nature of the bailout has merit, but when he tried to resume his trip, he lost interest, which is a type of bomb in my experience.
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