HST Permit vs fines
- expertnovice
- Topix Newbie
- Posts: 1
- Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2016 8:26 am
- Experience: N/A
HST Permit vs fines
Good morning all,
I am curious as to what fines someone may incur if they were caught out on the HST without a permit. Obviously that is not my plan, but this year I don't have the luxury of submitting secondary & tertiary date choices. The vast majority of my time is spent in the NF to the South (where rangers and permit checks are mythical concepts) but each time I have forayed into the NP, I have been checked for a canister and permit.
So, what are the repercussions of being caught without a permit? Is there a fine and if so, is it comparable (doubtful I know) in price to what one pays for a permit to begin with?
I have already had to postpone my HST hike once, and would hate to have to do it again because of my stringent availability of dates. Any help is appreciated.
//Nick
I am curious as to what fines someone may incur if they were caught out on the HST without a permit. Obviously that is not my plan, but this year I don't have the luxury of submitting secondary & tertiary date choices. The vast majority of my time is spent in the NF to the South (where rangers and permit checks are mythical concepts) but each time I have forayed into the NP, I have been checked for a canister and permit.
So, what are the repercussions of being caught without a permit? Is there a fine and if so, is it comparable (doubtful I know) in price to what one pays for a permit to begin with?
I have already had to postpone my HST hike once, and would hate to have to do it again because of my stringent availability of dates. Any help is appreciated.
//Nick
- AlmostThere
- Topix Addict
- Posts: 2724
- Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:38 pm
- Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Re: HST Permit vs fines
You could be escorted off the trail by a ranger. Happened to a friend of mine before. Three days of hiking with a ranger - not fun - and handed a fine and instructions to the leave the park. The fine for Yosemite is $75 - the fine for SEKI is probably comparable - and the rangers probably know that it isn't much of a deterrent, but I have seen it happen on a number of occasions that the hikers get escorted out without delay, for that or for having a dog. It's up to the ranger you run into, really.
Get the permit. Walks ins work. I would depart from Wolverton anyway - I have never failed to get a permit for the Alta trail.
Get the permit. Walks ins work. I would depart from Wolverton anyway - I have never failed to get a permit for the Alta trail.
- cslaght
- Topix Regular
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 8:15 am
- Experience: Level 3 Backpacker
- Location: Visalia, CA
Re: HST Permit vs fines
Are you coming from the East of the West? If it's the west, there shouldn't be much of a problem getting a permit, especially with the date opening March 1st (If I recall). From Whitney Portal however, that will be MUCH more difficult and heavily enforced. Like AT's comment, leaving from Wolverton on the Alta Trail then dropping at the cutoff just south of Mehrten Meadow works very well. Of what I remember, there's a pretty generous quota (compared to other TH in Seki) for the HST.
"The mountains are calling, but can't find my phone"
Charles
Charles
- maverick
- Forums Moderator
- Posts: 11841
- Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:54 pm
- Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Re: HST Permit vs fines
Thought it was a 6 months jail and/or $5000 fine, of course this is up the discretion of the ranger, has this changed?The fine for Yosemite is $75 - the fine for SEKI is probably comparable - and the rangers probably know that it isn't much of a deterrent, but I have seen it happen on a number of occasions that the hikers get escorted out without delay, for that or for having a dog. It's up to the ranger you run into, really.
Professional Sierra Landscape Photographer
I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.
Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.
Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
- AlmostThere
- Topix Addict
- Posts: 2724
- Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:38 pm
- Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Re: HST Permit vs fines
you're thinking of the fine for not having your food in an approved bear canister.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
- maverick
- Forums Moderator
- Posts: 11841
- Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:54 pm
- Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Re: HST Permit vs fines
Spoke to the Law office in Yosemite, the fine for going into the backcountry without a permit or bear canister is $250, but this amount is up to the discretion of the ranger. There are 3 possibilities that can occur, Forfeiture of Collateral, Forfeiture of Collateral Schedule, and Excluded Offenses, the max fine a judge can give someone in these cases is 6 months and/or $5000 fine.
More info here if your enjoy reading the legalese: http://www.caed.uscourts.gov/caednew/in ... -schedule/ and then lick on: Collateral Forfeiture Schedule (General Order No. 543) Effective April 4, 2014 link.
PS Welcome to HST Nick!
More info here if your enjoy reading the legalese: http://www.caed.uscourts.gov/caednew/in ... -schedule/ and then lick on: Collateral Forfeiture Schedule (General Order No. 543) Effective April 4, 2014 link.
PS Welcome to HST Nick!
Professional Sierra Landscape Photographer
I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.
Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
I don't give out specific route information, my belief is that it takes away from the whole adventure spirit of a trip, if you need every inch planned out, you'll have to get that from someone else.
Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
- rlown
- Topix Docent
- Posts: 8225
- Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:00 pm
- Experience: Level 4 Explorer
- Location: Wilton, CA
Re: HST Permit vs fines
Sent a message as well to Yose and got this back today, much in line with what Mav got back:
Russ
Just get the permit!! I've had friends who showed up without one escorted out by a ranger on horseback. (Glen Aulin)Hello,
Legally, you're subject to a fine of up to $5,000 and/or six months in jail. A ranger will also require you to end your backpacking trip early.
You can find information about how to get a wilderness permit at http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/wildpermits.htm. It's not that hard to do for most trailheads.
Jeffrey
National Park Service
Yosemite National Park
http://www.nps.gov/yose/
Russ
- oldranger
- Topix Addict
- Posts: 2861
- Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2007 9:18 pm
- Experience: N/A
- Location: Bend, Oregon
Re: HST Permit vs fines
The amount is not up to the ranger. There is a fixed bail schedule, which you can choose to forfeit instead of going before a magistrate. Just like when you get a speeding ticket. The ranger's discretion is whether or not to write a citation and what that citation should be for. But the ranger cannot fill in a bail amount.Spoke to the Law office in Yosemite, the fine for going into the backcountry without a permit or bear canister is $250, but this amount is up to the discretion of the ranger.
Mike
Mike
Who can't do everything he used to and what he can do takes a hell of a lot longer!
Who can't do everything he used to and what he can do takes a hell of a lot longer!
- Hobbes
- Topix Fanatic
- Posts: 1120
- Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2011 8:09 am
- Experience: N/A
- Location: The OC
Re: HST Permit vs fines
I guess I'm missing something, but what's the big deal about getting a permit? First of all, a certain % is held back for walk-ins: 40% for Inyo and 25% for SEKI. Secondly, the key is getting in, not out, so why not find a TH with an available permit? So what if it costs you an extra day (just walk faster)?
This is what's going on with the four THs out of Horseshoe (Trail, Cottonwood, NAP & OAP) for people who want to do the JMT. It adds an extra day or so+, but it's practically a 100% guaranteed dunk shot you can walk-in and get a permit any day of the week.
To add extra emphasis to the odds of scoring a walk-in permit, even for Whitney, Steve C over at the WhitneyZone posts annual permit statistics. I think last year only one day had zero permit availability. Every day during the summer, there has been at least 1 permit available due to cancellation or misc; many times double digits - for Whitney.
This is what's going on with the four THs out of Horseshoe (Trail, Cottonwood, NAP & OAP) for people who want to do the JMT. It adds an extra day or so+, but it's practically a 100% guaranteed dunk shot you can walk-in and get a permit any day of the week.
To add extra emphasis to the odds of scoring a walk-in permit, even for Whitney, Steve C over at the WhitneyZone posts annual permit statistics. I think last year only one day had zero permit availability. Every day during the summer, there has been at least 1 permit available due to cancellation or misc; many times double digits - for Whitney.
- AlmostThere
- Topix Addict
- Posts: 2724
- Joined: Wed Jun 24, 2009 4:38 pm
- Experience: Level 4 Explorer
Re: HST Permit vs fines
Unless I have a compelling reason to do so, I rarely reserve any more. Holiday weekends can be a reason to reserve. So can small quotas. But there are numerous ways to get to the HST -- going over from Mineral King is a crazy scenic route, as compared to wandering in trees for miles after the views of the first few miles from Crescent Meadow. Going in from Lodgepole over Silliman and across the Tablelands to Lightning Pass then descending to the Elizabeth Pass trail, and gradually to the junction down there at the Kaweah from which you ascend to Hamilton --- WOW. Lots of gain and loss, but SO MUCH ALPINE AWESOME.
There really is no reason at all, to not have a permit.
There really is no reason at all, to not have a permit.
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 424 guests