Women in the Backcountry Don’t Need Your Help

[rlown]

Back to the girl with the gun... I said "It's only a mile back to your car to get your permit without your pack." Glad the ranger was there.

[acorad]

Although I do think the two men in the story clearly should have stopped giving their unsolicited advice once they were informed of the woman hiker's experience and occupations, etc., I am unconvinced that the two men only gave the advice because the women were women.

I find it hard to believe that had it had been three young males, half the old guys' ages, in shorts, at almost 12,500 feet, in a driving rain storm, who accepted the offer of shelter from the two old guys, that the two old guys would not have then felt like they were reasonable in giving the younger guys their advice.

I also don't think this very specific interaction is in any way common, or normal, on the trails. At least, it is not in my experience.

I'd be interested to hear the two old guys' POV of the interaction...

[Wandering Daisy]

Hiking skirts are not shorts. They are somewhat new. Think of them as similar to a kilt, that Scottish men wear, even in rain. A few men actually have done the entire PCT in kilts. There are also insulated hiking skirts, made of a synthetic similar to in jackets. There are also rain skirts that work well with knee high gaiters.

Saying someone will get hypothermia if not wearing rain pants in rain is not particularly true. The women said they were not cold and had dry clothing in their packs. Calling the women "girls" is a clue to why the women felt the guys were condescending. The older men probably would also be condescending to young people in general, including guys, who they probably would have called "boys". I think the women just thought they were being offered a brief friendly warm-up by a fire and hot drinks. Then came the "advise", really more scolding than advise. And yes, women probably are more sensitive with this because of implicit prejudice we encounter every day that shoots down our confidence. Young men are often so brazenly confident that no words from old men would likely bother them.

I agree that the situation may not exclusively be aimed at women. A bit of the "old school/new school" thing. My husband has a t-shirt given to him, that reads "Old Guys Rule"; I am sure many of you have seen them. Older backpackers can get really entrenched that their way is the only right way. I ran into the same thing in the late 60's/early 70's wen the "Yosemite Method" was in conflict with the post-WWII traditional climbing. I did not win any popularity with the founders of NOLS when I refused to use the issued gear and took all my own "new-fangled" climbing gear and rope.

[balzaccom]

I am unconvinced that the two men only gave the advice because the women were women.

I find it hard to believe that had it had been three young males, half the old guys' ages, in shorts, at almost 12,500 feet, in a driving rain storm, who accepted the offer of shelter from the two old guys, that the two old guys would not have then felt like they were reasonable in giving the younger guys their advice.

I also don't think this very specific interaction is in any way common, or normal, on the trails. At least, it is not in my experience.

Clearly, you are welcome to your perspective. And the women on this board who don't share it are welcome to their own, based on their experience.

[grampy]

One needs to evaluate someone’s demeanor & facial expressions (regardless of their gender or age) before offering advice. If someone is violently shivering in a storm or looking like they’re about to puke at altitude, asking them if they could use some assistance is justified.
If they’re merely hurrying along in a rainstorm, say hi and otherwise leave them be.

Last summer, I encountered a lone hiker who had been doing the GC of the Tuolumne circuit and got separated from her group around Glen Aulin (and took a wrong turn). She didn’t have a map and told me she didn’t have a clue where she was. Other than that, she wasn’t “in distress” and seemed satisfied when I suggested she continue the 3 or so remaining miles (along Murphy Creek trail) to Tioga Road / Tenaya Lake to hitch a ride. Her husband, on the other hand, when I encountered him (same trail, maybe an hour later) expressed relief upon my telling him his wife was fine, but then seemed annoyed that I hadn’t escorted her to safety or whatever.
After completing my trip, I related the story to a ranger, to ask if I should have handled it differently; he laughed and said “no, you did everything right - her husband was the one with the problem”.
In general, I try to assume everyone on trail knows as much (or more) than I do, which works out fine.

[maiathebee]

I also don't think this very specific interaction is in any way common, or normal, on the trails. At least, it is not in my experience.

I'd be interested to hear the two old guys' POV of the interaction...

I think it's important that you reflect on your reaction here. Think about it. Just for a little bit.


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You thinking?

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Ok, I'll help:

1. Here we have an article using one specific example to illustrate what the women in the article, Daisy, and I have reported as common.

2. Unless you are a woman, your experience is not relevant.

3. Is the point of view of a rapist important? Extreme example for emphasis.

It's easy to get defensive and dismissive when people point out things that you might be doing that they do not like. This is why I asked in the beginning of my post for people to please respect the voices of women here. We are not making this up to annoy you. We are asking that the hiking community think about and rectify this problem to make it more welcoming to everyone.

[rlown]

2. Unless you are a woman, your experience is not relevant.

Then why even post here if you don't want balanced input. Pretty sure if you have a compound fracture in the backcountry, I'd pitch in.

[maiathebee]

2. Unless you are a woman, your experience is not relevant.

Then why even post here if you don't want balanced input. Pretty sure if you have a compound fracture in the backcountry, I'd pitch in.

You're missing the point. I was replying to the specific implication: "I also don't think this very specific interaction is in any way common, or normal, on the trails. At least, it is not in my experience." which basically says "well this doesn't happen to me, I haven't experienced it, therefore it does not exist or is not common" when the article, Daisy, and me are all reporting it as common.

My comment doesn't mean I don't want balanced input. What is not helpful is outright dismissal of what is being reported as common. Just because *you* don't experience something doesn't mean it doesn't exist or happen. This one major theme of the article.

I'm glad you're "pretty sure" you'd help! haha. I am 100% sure I would help anyone who was injured, even you

[rlown]

now you just sound man angry.

[maiathebee]

lmao Sorry you didn't get attention for your gun toting woman story even with two tries so now you're trying to get it by empty attacks on me. I won't reply further. Have a nice weekend!