Alternate (maverick's) search thread. | High Sierra Topix  

Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

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Re: Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

Postby rlown » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:56 pm

I'm pretty sure that at least 2 from HST are there. I don't know what SEKI SAR support they have, or if others are in tow on the trip.

Hope they stay safe and in touch with SAR. There's a LOT of setup required for even radio comms. Hope they told someone what channel they might squawk on. So many details..



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Re: Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

Postby whrdafamI? » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:48 pm

I was really surprised at Mavericks reaction and feel certain Larry would not be pleased by it. While I have a lot of winter gear I have absolutely no business going up there in searching. I call recognizing this wisdom. I would be more of a handicap than a asset and I feel sure that others on here feel the same way. Hoping for the best possible outcome.
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Re: Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

Postby ERIC » Sat Nov 03, 2012 8:47 am

To clarify...

I think the array of opinions for and against all aspects of this mission, including how participation was solicited, have been well documented already within this thread and elsewhere. The reason why this thread was reopened was to provide a place to discuss the logistics of the mission itself in hopes of improving efficiencies and safety. Let's please leave it at that.

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Re: Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

Postby DoyleWDonehoo » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:46 am

With the start of a spate of fair and unusually warm weather, conditions will be much improved for any search. A lot of the snow could be gone even from so high an area. I remember being in camp in upper basin and commenting to my backpack pard, "Hey, we are still over 11,000 feet!".
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Re: Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

Postby Wandering Daisy » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:48 am

After re-reading the posts, a few things stood out. First, the person who met Larry early on said that it was about 11AM and he was only 1.5 miles from the TH and going moderately slow. If someone as fit as Larry goes moderately slow, maybe he was not feeling well. My husband has had heart issues and lack of energy is an early symptom. Second, even if Larry were 100% feeling well, he had planned to come out on Monday. These two facts would suggest that a more detailed search close to Taboose Pass may be worthwhile. Someone who is used to x-country would not feel obligated to stay on the trail going over Taboose Pass - perhaps cut some switchbacks to save time - and given snow on rock, a fall and bonk on head. Hole up in tent and wait out storm scenario is not likely as if this were the case, he would have managed to get out by now. If going out over Taboose Pass in a blizzard, even the most experienced people are subject to hypothermia. Early symptoms of hypothermia are not thinking clearly - like finding a sheltered spot on the lee side of the wind and hiding, or hiding under the lower branches of a tree, and failing to move again. It is not clear to me exactly how much off-trail ground was covered by foot in the SAR search and how far from the trail they actually searched on foot. Taboose Pass and areas east can also be searched quite safely, slowly and in detail, even this late in the season.
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Re: Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

Postby BrianF » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:35 am

From What I gather from Maverick, they are starting out today with party going up to Red lake area, a party going to Armstrong cyn/Sawmill pass area and a party going up Goodale creek to Taboose pass area.
Lets wish them luck and safe travel
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Re: Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

Postby QITNL » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:11 pm

Yeah, best luck to Maverick, his group & everyone else involved in the search. Best wishes to Larry, his family and friends. I wish I could help - unfortunately my right arm is in a cast.
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Re: Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

Postby gdurkee » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:26 pm

I am in the very early stages of a beta test of, essentially, crowd sourcing search thoughts based on friend's knowledge of Larry's abilities and hiking habits. I want to emphasize, in my usual Cover My Ass way, that this is very unlikely to end up as part of any NPS search strategy in the future. But, I'm a map/GIS geek and the tools to put this together recently appeared. This seemed like a good way to experiment with the concept, give people a clearer visual of the search area and what's been done and maybe come up with some ideas for future plans.

Briefly: I took the PDF the NPS published of their final search efforts -- the air and ground tracklogs. I then converted it to a digital map (georeferencing) and overlayed it on a topographic base map within ArcGIS Explorer Online, increased the transparency of the NPS map so you could see the basemap, then published it. The direct link doesn't seem to be working, but go to:

http://www.arcgis.com/explorer/

In the upper right, type "Conn SAR" in the search box and you should have the map. Note the tool box on the left where you can turn on and off the NPS map layer. You can also change the basemap to a satellite view.

I have a hazy notion of opening the map to editing by a few people to draw in their own areas they think might benefit from a search. An attached note (or label) would allow a descriptive of why that would be an important route or area to search. Right now, you can put in possible routes or search areas, but need an account to save to.

Again, this is beta and I'm very interested in others' input.

This is somewhat paralleling work being done by friends at Esri right now in mapping storm damage at Sandy. They're created a phone app with a form so people can mark hazards (e.g. fallen trees), take a photo of it, then send it to the Mothership base map Esri is maintaining. I'm a little hazy on the details -- e.g. who's monitoring the map or if the app is specifically for certain emergency services to maintain themselves with different upload sites for different areas... . This is a rapidly evolving field but has great promise. I just thought I'd try a variation here as far as getting a wider and experienced public involved.

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Re: Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

Postby BrianF » Sat Nov 03, 2012 3:46 pm

I like being able to zoom and see the underlying Topo, definitely helps with seeing the exact terrain searched. In this particular case, the SAR GPS tracks are so dense that it makes it hard for additional marking by anyone else. Ideally it would be nice to be able to do overlays that can remove or add layers, for instance be able to remove the helicopter tracking to see better the ground search areas. That kind of ability would allow somepne to lay out their areas of interest and then be able to overly the SAR tracking to see if the area seems to be adequately covered. I realize that George probably doesn't have that ability with this map since the digital info wasn't originally accessible in layers, but just throwing out a thought.
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Re: Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

Postby tomba » Sat Nov 03, 2012 5:07 pm

Great idea with the overlay. Unfortunately it seems that ArcGIS Explorer requires Silverlight in order to be able to see the map.

For those that can't see it, I made a similar overlay using CalTopo (run by Bay Area Mountain Rescue).

Here is the map of the search area overlaid on topo map. Zoom in/out and pan the usual way. Adjust opacity of the search map - click on the red +1 in the upper right corner, and move the horizontal slider between 0 and 100% or enter the opacity percentage directly in the text box.

People can add lines, points, and polygons, as described here.
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Re: Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

Postby norcalhiker » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:20 pm

gdurkee, interesting idea. I'm exploring the map but I don't know that I've been following the details of this enough to contribute.

tomba, it's probably not productive to split the information gathering to another website. I get that you see advantages to caltopo. I don't think it's helpful to provide the alternative web map unless you're running the project.
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Re: Alternate (maverick's) search thread.

Postby rlown » Sun Nov 04, 2012 1:26 pm

tools are great.. they mean nothing until we hear back from anyone in the field. Laying a PDF over the map means nothing as well. We had a good look at the helo map, and we all know the ground crew map lines are way too wide.

Time to hear from someone actually on the ground. now we wait.. It's been a long time.

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