How many miles are you comfortable pushing yourself to do?

[mrphil]

You guys are getting too hung up on the semantics, but since they were my words, I'll own them. You're also exceptional in what you do, and have been for a long time. What's kept you at it all these years? For most, I doubt it was doing miles solely for the sake of doing miles. Pushing yourself hard, accomplishment, etc...definitely have their rewards, but it's plain to see from the replies on this thread alone, it's so much more to so many people than going from Point A to point B as far and as fast as possible.

You can, and often have to, hunker down and go, go, go, but you also need to find the balance between only necessarily focusing on where your next footfall is safely going to land and taking the time to look up and enjoy what's around you. Life in the day-to-day "real world" is hard, fast, and non-stop demanding enough without turning the time of respite from all of it into just another forced ruck march through the rest of it. And let's be honest here: As much as we all might like to think we're great multi-taskers, people are generally horrible at it.

To each their own though, but I will say this: the sport of backpacking is changing dramatically, and not necessarily for the better. People are coming out in droves: the trails are often crowded, attitudes are changing, often getting worse, people are beating up the wilderness. What many are often bringing stands in direct contrast to what we've come to love and enjoy about the whole thing. I believe that as Topix "experts" or "addicts" or just people that care (maybe even just older helping the younger to understand in a traditional sense), you have a responsibility to share, to broaden, and to help guide perspectives. It's not the office, it's not traffic, it's not the rat race, it's nature and everyone's place in it. Leave that other stuff at home, where it belongs. Your time out shouldn't be just another thing you have to rush through because that's become your mindset.

If I want people to disrespectfully grunt at me in greeting when we pass, being basically no more than in their way as they rush to the next iconic destination for an obligatory photo op, I'll go to Yosemite Valley. But if I want to meet kindred spirits that understand it, whatever their reason for being there and doing what they do, I'll put on my backpack.

[Wandering Daisy]

I do not see the person who does 20 miles a day, having any more impact on the wilderness, or being in conflict with the concept of wilderness. In fact, there is more impact camping than walking, so the slow going backpacker may have even more impact. As for chatting with someone you meet on the trail, I normally do not do that, no matter how many miles a day I plan to go. I do no see connecting with other wilderness users a necessary part of my wilderness experience; a brief "hi" is enough for me.

The higher milage concept is born a great deal out of the lighter equipment now available. So we now have a choice to go more miles, if we want to. Young people are very energetic and many of them want to do longer miles, than we older folks do.

The original post was someone who had limited time and wanted to do the JMT. She personally experiemented with two daily mileages; one was comfortable, the other not. She simply asked how many miles we with more experience are comfortable doing (with the underlying question if 20 miles a day were too much). The answers were all individual; all different, with some hints on how she could make the longer miles more comfortable. Who is to say her goal, the JMT in 2 weeks, is NOT an wilderness experience? Section hike it? An entirely different feel, not a bad idea or wrong, but not doing the entire trail at once. The question was if it was feasible; not a judgement or disapproval of doing the JMT in that time frame.

The issue of poor enviromental behavior or bad "trail" behavior is separate from the amount of miles you hike every day. The issue of constant communication, on route blogs, and all those electronic gadgets on a wilderness trip, is also a separate issue from daily miles. Over-use in wilderness areas is more a result of too many permits, or no permits, rather than anyone's style of hiking. I agree that these issues need to be addressed.

What I see in a lot of the posts here is the "old guard's" idea of a wilderness exprience is at odds with today's youth. I have been on the other end of that in alpine climbing- coming of age with the new "Yosemite method" of climbing vs the old pre WWII expedition methods. I see new methods, not replacing the old, but just giving us more options.

I too will get up on my soapbox!

[mrphil]

Another perspective from a man not short on opinions:

http://vault.sierraclub.org/john_muir_e ... ering.aspx

[Ashery]

You guys are getting too hung up on the semantics, but since they were my words, I'll own them.

The irony being that the first point of my first post in this thread was with respect to not reading too deeply into what's written in casual conversation, which is now something that I myself am guilty of*

Nothing much else to add as I'm in alignment with WD's last post. Though the rise of the miles based attitude has also been given a boost by the increased popularity of trails like the PCT and JMT.

*Edit added for clarity.

[alpinemike]

To answer the original question briefly.... Really depends on how much weight I'm carrying and what kind of terrain I'm doing.

Naturally if I have 12 days of food on my back I wouldn't want to push more than 12-14 miles and that's on trail. Off trail... half that. And for anything off trail I wouldn't imagine myself wanting to do more than 8 or so miles in a given day, because usually the terrain is unstable talus, or scree, or steep slopes and all that can really take it out of me. Now mixing in 5 miles of off trail with something like 10 miles of on trail. That is reasonable for me for a day given not too heavy of a pack.

If I have a light pack, anything under 25 pounds. With no food or maybe a couple days and it's all on trail I'm all game for 20+ mile days. I've done them quite a few times now and never felt like I regretted them. Just did one a couple days back and granted my knees were a little stiff the following day that was definitely due to the insane amount of elevation drop we did. From 12,100 FT to 4,500 FT. If I had more weight on I would have felt much worse and I couldn't advise doing that.

I enjoy long days since I tend to sleep better out there when I'm good and tired from a hard day like that. I doubt I'd ever want to go further than 30 miles in a day though.... something about all that pounding on your feet seems a bit rough.

[giantbrookie]

Perhaps my powers of observation are not too good, but I don't see a lot of "grim" faces when I look at folks I pass on trails or off trail in the backcountry, whether they be on super long hikes, far from their last campsite, or whether they're taking a 1/3 mi stroll from the road. It seems to me I see a lot of joy, but perhaps I am seeing things through rose tinted glasses because that is my state of mind when I'm out there. And I'd also agree that having a look of determination on one's face doesn't necessarily mean that folks are not enjoying themselves, nor that folks can't have fun when physically pushing themselves.

I think that amount of physical pain we go through on a trip is a function of the degree of hiking difficulty relative to one's own hiking ability and conditioning, so that in a group of hikers the strongest one can hike with the least exertion and enjoy the surroundings a bit more. For me I remember vividly the difference between my childhood hikes, when I was the slow one struggling to keep up with my dad, or others in a large group, compared to my hikes since age 20 when I was nearly always in the lead. I recall being the slowest kid on Sierra Club hikes, and you know how this works: I was so slow that I caught up with the pack only as they ending their rest stop. So, in those early days on Sierra Club hikes, or following my dad on increasingly difficult hikes to age 20, I remember focusing my gaze mainly on the trail or ground ahead of my next stride and putting myself in sort of a hiking trance to blot out the physical discomfort. In contrast, during my last 38 years of hiking, I've had time to look around and soak it in a bit more. I suppose, too, that as I've aged I've learned to appreciate more of the little things about being in the backcountry, too, instead of taking them for granted. Still, even though I think I suffered a lot more per unit distance as a kid when I hiked, my enjoyment of the high mountains in those days was not limited to the ultimate goal of reaching the campsite or signing the summit register on a peak, or reaching the car at the conclusion of the hike. I think the best measure of my enjoyment of the mountains while struggling to keep up with my dad is that I there was clearly some enjoyment in the "failures" (usually not making it to a summit in those days).

As the years have gone by in the backcountry different trends have emerged or come to the fore, the societal context is different, and this has led to some slightly different motivations for people to get out there. In spite of this, I do not sense a difference in the average degree of enjoyment I see out there. I think the vast majority of people really enjoy it out there, regardless of their objectives and goals, and I think it shows. I also don't think that folks are treating the wilderness with less respect than 50 years ago. In fact, I think there has been some improvement over the years, and this is probably at least partly a function of somewhat stricter regulations. Wilderness permit quotas have kept the numbers in the backcountry at a near constant for awhile. Off trail backpacking has declined enormously in the past 30 years or so so that one is much more likely to find solitude off trail now than in the 70's or 80's. Trends and goals of folks in the backcountry have shifted over the years, but I still find the vast majority of interactions I have with other hikers out there to be positive and friendly---whether it is a smile and a "hello" to and from a passing hiker, or somewhat longer conversations that spring up upon meeting folks. My experience this past week on the popular Tahoe-Yosemite trail was no exception.

[mrphil]

The irony being that the first point of my first post in this thread was with respect to not reading too deeply into what's written in casual conversation,

Nothing much else to add as I'm in alignment with WD's last post. Though the rise of the miles based attitude has also been given a boost by the increased popularity of trails like the PCT and JMT.

Points well taken. You'll get no argument from me there. From the get-go, my own being that there's so much more to be had from it. The "broadening". No judgment whatsoever in what anyone wants to do, nor in how they do it.

Certainly it's popularity and numbers, but I also think it's a matter of time. If it takes a certain amount of it in order to reach a goal, you can push yourself to get there faster, maybe (some things just have to be allowed to evolve on their own and take the time they take, regardless), but it shouldn't come at the expense of everything else it could've been. "I cut my trip short and felt a bit defeated." I light of that sentiment, I can't see how that result was a good thing.

[mrphil]

So, in those early days on Sierra Club hikes, or following my dad on increasingly difficult hikes to age 20, I remember focusing my gaze mainly on the trail or ground ahead of my next stride and putting myself in sort of a hiking trance to blot out the physical discomfort. In contrast, during my last 38 years of hiking, I've had time to look around and soak it in a bit more. I suppose, too, that as I've aged I've learned to appreciate more of the little things about being in the backcountry, too, instead of taking them for granted.

Exactly!

[sekihiker]

I just ran into an essay by Phil Heffington which is no longer online. I decided to upload it to my website because it seems to address the mileage question and many related issues that have been discussed in this thread.

http://www.sierrahiker.com/TrailPersonality.html

[jeremiahkim]

I just ran into an essay by Phil Heffington which is no longer online.

Simple, but excellent article. Reflective of many things that have already been shared, as well as my experience, which is that it is important to know your goals but almost equally important to manage how you respond to the unexpected and communicate/work with others. So much of what I have learned about myself in the backcountry is learning how to be attentive towards the needs of those in my party, learning how to ask for help, and see the group's success as my success. Pretty great lessons for life as well.

Thanks for sharing.