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Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby maverick » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:13 pm

I claim it in the name of Spain. Why the heck not? :D


Heck no Russ, we claim it in the name of HST! :)
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby rlown » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:14 pm

2017 meet-up site?
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby maverick » Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:23 pm

The Yosemite Resource Manager wrote, that the info has been forwarded to Yosemite's GIS specialist, they hope to have us an answer by the end of the week.

2017 meet-up site?


Highly unlikely Russ, but if it is on the Emigrant side then maybe, if on the Yosemite side then no. :lol:
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby oldranger » Wed Feb 10, 2016 5:39 pm

Check this 1905 Map.http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190515/m1/1/zoom/ Key is the description of the boundary on the nw corner of the map. "Divide Between Cherry Creek and Eleanor and Falls Creeks" Therefore the lake is not in Yosemite and any other boundary is probably based on the 1956 usgs map error.
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby maverick » Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:06 pm

Check this 1905 Map.http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/ ... m1/1/zoom/ Key is the description of the boundary on the nw corner of the map. "Divide Between Cherry Creek and Eleanor and Falls Creeks" Therefore the lake is not in Yosemite and any other boundary is probably based on the 1956 usgs map error.


Interesting Mike, but even though it was establish by Congress, that was back in 1905, wonder how many times that lake has changed sides by more present (last few decades) surveyors, and then by current GIS people. Looking forward to see what Yosemite's GIS person comes up with, and then what the Emigrant Wilderness Manager has to says.
HST= Wilderness Adventurer who knows no bounds, except for their own imagination.

Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby rlown » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:26 pm

If no one claims it, then It's the Larry Conn lake!!

Just sayin..
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby maverick » Wed Feb 10, 2016 7:36 pm

If no one claims it, then It's the Larry Conn lake!!

Just sayin..


Already have an unnamed lake up Goodale Canyon, across the ridge from Taboose Pass waiting for that Russ, a fine small lake with a beautiful fluted unnamed peak behind it, but that process is not happening for a few more years.
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Have a safer backcountry experience by using the HST ReConn Form 2.0, named after Larry Conn, a HST member: http://reconn.org
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby rlown » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:10 pm

ok. keep us in the loop. He deserves a memorial.
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby balzaccom » Wed Feb 10, 2016 8:53 pm

I don't know if any of you use mappingsupport.com Gmap4...pretty cool stuff.

Here's a link to it....shows that the boundary for Emigrant includes the lake....and the boundary for Yosemite bends the other way and ALSO includes the lake. ON THE SAME MAP!

Check it out. Use the t7 World Topo ESRI version...

http://www.mappingsupport.com/p/gmap4.p ... rought.txt
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby oldranger » Wed Feb 10, 2016 9:14 pm

maverick wrote:

Interesting Mike, but even though it was establish by Congress, that was back in 1905, wonder how many times that lake has changed sides by more present (last few decades) surveyors, and then by current GIS people. Looking forward to see what Yosemite's GIS person comes up with, and then what the Emigrant Wilderness Manager has to says.


Regardless of what surveyors or map makers have done unless there has been subsequent legislation the boundary described in the legislation is the boundary. If someone today were to rule otherwise they are usurping the decision of congress. I am still convinced that the inclusion in yosemite in some maps is simply the reflection of a drawing error that took place in the USGS office. It is practically a moot question since both jurisdictions are almost equally protected but I guess grazing could be permitted if Stanislaus NF actually realized that the area was within its domain, though not exactly prime grazing from a google earth view.

I'm sure the original description is in the Yosemite archives and that is why the Yosemite map excludes the lake. Stanislaus NF probably does not have access to that and their records are dependent on the USGS maps and their base maps for the forest probably date back to sometime after the 1956 map was made.
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby Hobbes » Thu Feb 11, 2016 8:41 am

Yosemite. If you take a look at the satellite view from the gmap link, you can see the drainage is south towards Fawn lake & Kendrick creek. The USGS topo appears to be drawn slightly off from the original photo surveillance. If there was just one more contour line drawn where the border is (in MyTopo), it would become more evident. Instead, it's difficult to tell which way the drainage is actually flowing unless you look at the photo.

Edit: actually, if you take a really close look at the satellite photo, you can see a bit of lower Twin lakes overflows into the mystery lake. The ridge above both Twin & mystery is much more pronounced than shown in the USGS map.
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Re: Who owns this lake? Yosemite or Emigrant?

Postby bigd » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:53 am

Thanks Maverick for doing all the leg work to find the answer to this question.

After reading oldranger's comments, it appears the lake's owner is decided by which way the outlet water flows. Looking carefully at Google Earth, the water appears to definitely not flow towards Yosemite (Fawn lake/Kendrick creek). However, it also doesn't appear to flow towards Emigrant (Cherry Creek/Huckleberry Lake). What if the lake's water basin is small enough that it can't fill the lake enough to cause it to overflow? Then what?

Perhaps a survey in May/June is needed to conclusively determine which way the water flows?
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