NR on all permits for some trailheads?

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Schleppy
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Re: NR on all permits for some trailheads?

Post by Schleppy »

Trail maintenance and restoration efforts also. The same rangers who enforce in peak season are doing maintenance in the early season and recovery in the late.

Yosemite might turn into a theater of bad behavior without adults around. Maybe they'll close it.
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jôhorn
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Re: NR on all permits for some trailheads?

Post by jôhorn »

Thanks athanasius - you're right. I didn't notice that they added Saddlebag to the rec.gov Inyo list. Am I blind or what?

So prior to June 27, should work the same for Cottonwood Pass, no quotas, book two weeks in advance.

And yeah, this summer might be a mess, just hoping for the best....
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JimHart
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Re: NR on all permits for some trailheads?

Post by JimHart »

I'm wondering... so, if you are on the site at 7AM, will the NR change to open spots in real time, or do you need to refresh your browser just after 7AM to see the availability?
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Re: NR on all permits for some trailheads?

Post by Gazelle »

You must refresh at 7am try to do it exactly at 7. you will have to enter the top info so be ready and fast!
The woman who follows the crowd will usually go no further than the crowd. The woman who walks alone is likely to find herself in places no one has ever been before. Albert Einstein
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JimHart
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Re: NR on all permits for some trailheads?

Post by JimHart »

Thanks Gazelle!
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richlong8
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Re: NR on all permits for some trailheads?

Post by richlong8 »

This is no longer a workable, viable system for permits. The best thing that could happen is mass noncompliance until they get the message that this mess will not be tolerated. This began as a voluntary free system and has gradually turned into this monstrosity we call a permit system.
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SSSdave
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Re: NR on all permits for some trailheads?

Post by SSSdave »

The mistake members are making interpreting the recreation dot gov trailhead Availability pages is expecting the terms used mean the same thing for different national forests which is NOT the case. What the various terms mean and the way the reservation and permit system is set up must be read at the individual national forest sites and NOT at recreation dot gov though that site may provide links. Also how such is implemented for each NF has been changing year to year. I just reviewed that situation at several NF's and they vary. I sent the below more verbose explanation to an acquaintance so they could figure out what is otherwise not obvious.

------------------------
Inyo NF:

Reservations open daily ONLINE at 7AM PST:

60% of quota is released 6 months in advance (i.e. entry date of July 4 opens on January 4)
40% of quota is released 2 weeks in advance, on the same day of the week (i.e. if entry date is on a Tuesday, permits become available on the Tuesday 2 weeks prior)
"NR" means the 60% has all been reserved and the 40% has not yet been released
----------------------------

So for July 2025 60% of total available quota permits were available online at recreation.gov during January each day minus 6 months starting at 7am PST. For popular trailheads, all the 6 month reserved July permits could have been taken by the end of January. If one were on recreation.gov at 7am PST January 20 (Sunday) viewing the available permits page, the status would suddenly change from NR to some still available quota number. As soon as all the 60% were reserved the number would change to either NR or 0 (zero).

For less popular trailheads, they would remain available up to 2 weeks before a trailhead date. So say for a July 20 unpopular trailhead date, reservations could be made from January 20 through July 6. Thus one might view the available permits page say on June 17, and see the number 5 that could still be reserved at any time online day or night. After 7am PDT July 6 (Sunday) until July 20, another 40% of the quota would be added as available. One would not be able to reserve permits for a July 20 start until January 20 with status NR shown.

For a popular trailhead like South Lake Bishop Pass, all the 6 month advanced permits could be reserved within minutes of 7am PST January 20. Then one would need to wait until 7am PDT July 6 for the 40% remaining permits to be released at the 2 week (14 day) date that would likely be reserved within minutes. The following day, the same game would occur at 7am January 7 for January 21 trailhead dates.

This is the recreation.gov permit availability page:

https://www.recreation.gov/permits/2332 ... %20Permits

This is the Inyo National Forest quota and trailhead name page:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/sites/nfs/files ... 3-2021.pdf

Thus to understand how popular reserving a trailhead has been before the 2 week 14 day point that still shows a number instead of an NR, one would subtract the still remaining number from the 60% quota page 6 months advance number. But per my example of July 20, if on say July 13 there were still available permits, one would subtract the still available from the 2 weeks advance number column.

=============================
Today is May 15, 2025. I see on the quota page "Little Lakes Valley" that is Rock Creek at Mosquito Flat.

https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=37.4297 ... &b=t&a=mba

On that page it shows a total quota of 25 people with 15 available 6 months in advance and 10 2 weeks in advance. The availability page shows NR for July 20 and also for all the days near that. I set the availability page for July 17 that then display July 17 through July 26. Thus we would at this point need to wait until July 6 when 10 more permits become available if we were trying for a permit on that date. Likewise for all dates nearby.

None of the other INF trailheads showed availability for destinations I given limitations might consider.

I then did the same thing for Toiyabe National Forest for Hoover Wilderness. Obtaining their permits is different including terminology. Instead of 2 weeks it is 3 days and 8am MDT that is 7am PDT.

----------------------------

A wilderness permit is required year-round for the Hoover Wilderness for overnight stays. From June 15th through October 15th, wilderness permits are limited by a trailhead quota. Each year quota season permits become available for advanced reservations six months in advance of your trip start date (day of entry). The other half of the wilderness permits for quota season, will be made available within three days of the date of entry, at 8am MDT.

Reserved permits are available to print at home within 7 days of the entry date. Permits purchase within 3 days of the entry date will be immediately available for printing at home.
----------------------------

This page shows the Hoover quotas:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/r04/humboldt-to ... ss-permits

And this link recreation.gov page shows what is still available:

https://www.recreation.gov/permits/4458 ... 2025-07-17

It does show 10 of 20 still available for July 21 that would be reservable even right now. at 7am PDT July 18. That also means 40-02-10= 28 would be reservable on July 18.

=============================

This is the quota page for Sierra National Forest:

https://www.fs.usda.gov/r05/sierra/wild ... ead-quotas

And this is the recreation.gov page shows what is still available. The permit process is the same as INF above.

https://www.recreation.gov/permits/4458 ... ght-permit

=============================

This is the Eldorado National Forest, Desolation Wilderness policy that is different. Instead of NR they show a 0 (zero) when no permits are available. They don't use trailhead quotas but rather zone quotas I have the maps for. Last year I went to the Gilmore Lake area. The better locations are already reserved for 70% of their quotas with the rest 30% same day Walk-Ins.

-----------------------------

Permits are required all year round and allow an individual or group (of up to 12) traveling & camping together to stay in this Wilderness.
Permits are limited in quantity from Friday of Memorial Day weekend to the end of September.
The quota is based on 45 Destination Zones. You must stay your first night in the Zone you select for your permit. After your first night, you may change locations for subsequent nights of your visit using the same permit, as long as you exit by the last date booked for your trip.
Permits can be reserved up to six months in advance of your day of entry.
Outside of the limited quota season, permits can be booked and printed on the day of entry.
Within the limited quota season, your permit can be printed starting seven days in advance and up to the day of entry.

70% of the daily quota for overnight permits are RESERVABLE online from 6 months to 1 day in advance of your date of entry at www.recreation.gov.
30% of the daily quota for overnight permits will be available via WALK-IN/same day issuance at the Placerville Ranger Station in Camino 7 days a week starting the Friday before Memorial Day.
Overnight permits will also be available Monday-Friday at the Lake Tahoe Basin Management Unit Supervisor’s Office in South Lake Tahoe starting June 6th (Call ahead as this date may change to be earlier than June 6).

------------------------------

Here is the availability page:

https://www.recreation.gov/permits/2332 ... ailability
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Jim F
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Re: NR on all permits for some trailheads?

Post by Jim F »

SSSdave,

Awesome clarification/contribution. Much appreciated.

Jim
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