Backcountry meetup spot for 10-15 folks with lake and shade?

[John_K_Say_Hey]

I'm trying to build community here. If the traffic on HST is any indication, that's sorely needed. If all you've got to offer is negative nancy gatekeeping, I'm not interested.

You asked for explicit directions to an uncrowded, under-the-radar alpine lake so that you can bring a crowd of 15 people to it.

A crowd that in all likelihood will go on to bring more attention to this place, further making it less likely that this uncrowded place stays uncrowded.

I'm saying "no thanks." While I don't bemoan people sharing their experiences and helping others, your specific ask falls outside the spectrum of what I'm comfortable with.

Others can disagree. I just hope they consider the implications of indulging your specific request.

Equating web traffic with community is one thing (debatable), but literal traffic in the back country means something else all together. Declining to draw you a map with gps coordinates is not the same as denying you access. That definition of gatekeeping sets an extremely low bar. Access to information is in no short supply.

This blog post generally reflects my feelings: https://pmags.com/thoughts-on-gatekeeping

It's always "crowds" when it's other people. When you're doing it, that's fine.

As far as I can tell, I am the only person on Reddit or HST who plans and leads regular offline events aimed at helping NorCal backpackers make more backpacking friends. Given that the US Surgeon General recently declared a public health crisis of loneliness and social isolation in this country, I have to think that the good of what I'm doing outweighs your hypothetical concern trolling.

Regardless, I didn't post here to be lectured by some backcountry NIMBY, so sod off.

[Schleppy]

It's always "crowds" when it's other people. When you're doing it, that's fine.

As far as I can tell, I am the only person on Reddit or HST who plans and leads regular offline events aimed at helping NorCal backpackers make more backpacking friends. Given that the US Surgeon General recently declared a public health crisis of loneliness and social isolation in this country, I have to think that the good of what I'm doing outweighs your hypothetical concern trolling.

Regardless, I didn't post here to be lectured by some backcountry NIMBY, so sod off.

Dial it down, John.

I don't ascribe ill intent, but the effect of your specific request is not something I endorse. Others should also consider the common sense downstream implications.

The "hypothetical" you cite is anything but. Lots of articles, reports, and lots of personal experience.

Most of my concern is not about HST, but what happens with AllTrails, OnX, Instagram, and yes, to a lesser degree Reddit.

If your cause is to address the epidemic of loneliness, I applaud you. I hope you also appreciate the value and scarcity of solitude and the wilderness experience.

One can hold concern for both. There are back country locations that you will not drastically erode the character of by promoting their popularity for group use. Every special place does not need to be willingly offered up for crowds.

I'm not even sure what your mad about. You shouldn't get angry that people wont serve you up their special places. Go find them, or find new ones. I just wont help you.

Just cuz I won't buy you a Big Mac doesn't mean you can't go to McDonald's.

[John_K_Say_Hey]

Dinkey Lakes: Island Lake and some of the lower lakes could also accommodate your group.

If the traffic on HST is any indication, that's sorely needed.

This is still a downtime; many folks will start returning in the next month or two. Some folks I know are worried about whether parks will be open and whether they can afford to get out.

Can you please delete this post and my replies? Thanks.

[wildhiker]

Getting back to the OP original request...

Don't forget that there is a group size limit throughout the Sierra of 15 people who camp together, even if they get separate permits.

I think the criterion of yours that will be difficult to meet with all the others is "not crowded" (also, to my mind, few Sierra lakes are really "swimmable", although some will swim regardless of the cold temperatures). If you can tolerate less solitude, I think you have many more options. For example: Upper and Lower Twin Lakes in the Kaiser Wilderness, north of Huntington Lake. There are two main trailheads - "Potter Pass" (from Badger Flat on the paved Kaiser Pass road" and "Sample Meadows" on a Forest Service high standard road (probably gravel) taking off from the Kaiser Pass road. It's only a four or five mile hike from either trailhead to the main lakes with about 1000 feet elevation gain. Each of these trailheads has a quota of 22 reservable up to 6 months in advance, and an additional 15 or so reservable two weeks in advance. Right now, recreation.gov shows August days on these trailheads are practically wide open - few or no reservations made yet. It's been 45 years since I camped there, but I remember (and satellite imagery confirms) that there is a lot of tree cover (thus shade) on the south and west sides of the bigger Upper Twin Lake, and those sides have moderate slope allowing you to camp pretty far back from the shoreline and perhaps out of sight of others. You can visit other smaller lakes in the area, some cross-country, and it is easy to go cross-country from the trail end at George Lake, via College Lake, up to a saddle on Kaiser Crest where you pick up the crest trail a short distance to the top of Kaiser Peak, which has an amazing view of the big mountains from southern Yosemite to northern Kings Canyon.

-Phil

[dave54]

Sounds like you would be better off getting a Group Site at an established campground. Then you won't be taking a half dozen individual campsites away from other users or trampling a dispersed site. Plus can hold a little more than 15, because more tagalongs might show up making the group larger than 15.
Several picnic tables will be available, larger restrooms, room for parking multiple vehicles, oversized cooking areas, etc.
Just put up the money for the group site and ask for donations from the attendees.

[SSSdave]

As related 10>15 people that is fine.

Very few Sierra Nevada lakes with any depth are ever warm enough to comfortably swim at for more than short periods. Some at lowest elevations and breeze protected become marginally ok by mid August like Kibbie at 6.6k. Many lakes tend to be in windy areas and if so upwelling from cold thermocline depths tends to keep surfaces at best cool even by mid August.

https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=38.0707 ... 3&z=14&b=t

One that is infrequently visited is Many Island Lake that is actually in Yosemite but is permitted with less regulation issues via Stanislaus NF. One reason that is so is because trout due to lack of spawning have long disappeared thus no fishing. And it is a solid 8+ mile 2.5k vertical backpack requiring carrying extra water, so not a stroll. Plus it is a half mile off trail requiring minor slab down climbing that usually scares away curious only trail oriented. Would be fun for a water oriented destination given all its islands. Giving the level nature of its immediate surrounding topography, I'd expect it is not deep so less likely chilly. Also has some shallow adjacent unconnected small "ponds". Plenty of nearby places to explore off trails including other lakes given topo skills.

The trailhead is a bit rough near Shingle Springs but many 2WD park there. One can always park at the more easily driveable to Eleanor Lake trailhead that adds less than 2 miles.

https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=38.0105 ... =14&b=f16a

https://www.davidsenesac.com/2017_Trip_ ... 17-12.html

[creekfeet]

I'm of the opinion for groups of more than 4-5, the polite thing to do is one of the following: Go someplace so remote and obscure that there's a zero chance you'll run into anyone else (think something like Red Spur). Or go someplace where it's a given that solitude shouldn't be expected (Bearpaw Meadow, anywhere along the JMT, etc.)

Anyhow, considering there's little to no chance that everyone in a big group would want to opt for the former option, I'd lean towards the ladder. As far as this specific request goes, I'd recommend Jennie Lake. It's pretty, is one of the best swimming lakes in the Sierra, and has multiple easily accessible trailheads, depending on the route you want to travel. Also, since it's on national forest land, permits aren't an issue, you can more or less camp anywhere, and the impacts of a crew of fifteen will feel less substantial.

[bald tires]

I have been to Jennie Lakes. It is beautiful and a very easy hike. Lots of places to camp. Lots of parking too. There are other lakes close by. These would require a permit. Belle Canyon takes you into some nice high country lakes. Permits seem to be always available.