I'm looking for any thoughts or experiences in or near a backpacking route my friends and I are planning through the sie

[aDuckedUpGoose]

Howdy folks, I'm looking at backpacking in the Sierras this summer with some friends and would greatly appreciate any thoughts on our route. I've attached a PDF of the route as well as linked the caltopo below. Sorry that the PDF is low quality.

Some background for us: we're level 3 backpackers as defined on this forum. We have a lot of experience backpacking all around the US as a group but no experience in CA at all. We've had a few off trail experiences. We're hoping to do nothing more technical than class 2 in this trip, but can confidently navigate class 3 if needed. The main goal is to build more substantial off trail travel experience here as well as experience this beautiful wilderness. I will be bringing a Garmin GPS with an active subscription for the SOS function. We'll also use the Garmin to check in with people who know what we're doing and who to contact in an emergency. Compass and map will be our main mode of navigation.

About the route: One of my friends put this route together after reading The High Sierra: A Love Story by Kim Stanley Robinson. We don't have exact dates nailed down, but likely late July through early September is when we'll go. I'd expect there could still be snow in some high altitudes in late July. It looks like a good portion of the route is off trail though there are some portions on trails. We are planning to start at the north end of this route, outside of kings canyon NP, and finish at the south end in Sequoia NP. The caltopo page includes some blue and yellow paths that are alternate ways to go or side quests. We're not sure if we'll do any of these alternates, the red path is the main route. We are still working out how exactly to break this down. We are expecting to take about 10 days. We're hoping to keep each day below 10 miles and 4k feet elevation gain.

Questions:
I'm hoping we can get some data on the various passes we'll be going through. Much of this route is not on established trails, so I'm not sure where to find info, if any is available, on them.
1. Am I correct in assuming there will still be some snow at higher elevations in the end of July? I live in CO and we usually are mostly snow free at this time, but there can still be some hanging around.
2. Should we be prepared for anything more than class 2 terrain? The book claims everything we plan to do is no more than class 2, but things can certainly change over the years. We're not planning to bring any climbing ropes or climbing gear.
3. What do you think about timing? I'm leaning towards early September, the week after labor day, in the hopes that there will be less people in the national parks for what time we'll be there. Based on some past weather data, it looks like things will still be pretty warm in early September.
4. What's the bushwhacking like in this area? Should we plan to wear gaiters or will long pants be sufficient? Here in CO, I can generally get by in shorts off trail if it's warm enough. I'll have to deal with a few scrapes though.
5. If anyone has hiked or backpacked in any portion of our route, we'd love to hear any experiences you had. If you have a trip report on or near this route, please share.
6. Are y'all packing out poop or is waste generally buried? I believe we're allowed to bury waste so long as we're camping below alpine areas where we have access to soil. I tried calling the park service to ask them, but still haven't gotten a call back.
7. It seems like there's plenty of water sources throughout this area. Is that typically the case in the summer? We're planning to carry about 3 liters per person while travelling.
8. We will look into shuttle services at both ends of the route, south lake and wolverton. There are some resources for this on this website, but I'd appreciate sharing any services you've had good or bad experiences with.
9. We will need a wilderness permit for Kings/Sequoia, but I'm not sure where our starting point should be. On the rec dot gov site, I'm not seeing a starting point near south lake, where we plan to start. We're planning to get a ride near Bishop, CA to our starting point.

I tried to cover everything important without rambling too much. Let me know if I missed anything important for you to provide feedback on our route and questions.

[https://caltopo.com/m/AVB9R]

[paul]

Howdy and welcome to HST! You'd get your permit from Inyo National forest for a South Lake start. Whether you can get it online to carry you all the way into and through the National parks I am not certain; you might want to call the Bishop Ranger Station (right away) to check on just how to do it.
You'll bury your "deposits".
You should take a look at the HST map:
https://www.highsierratopix.com/high-si ... &cat=&mt=3
turn on the layer with cross country passes and you will find answers to several of your questions.
You will never need to carry 3 liters of water unless you get into October, there are generally plenty of sources.
If I were doing it, I'd start early august - To me that is the best compromise of less bugs, less chance of thunderstorms, and less chance of smoke. Later is often better for the first two but you get into more likelihood of the last.
Have fun!

[thegib]

Second what paul says. Your route is very ambitious and includes cols/passes that are listed as class 3. King col being your crux. You have Cataract Creek pass listed as Observation pass on caltopo. Midway col is considered class 3 but could be avoided by going over Milestone pass and Colby. Milestone pass plus Triple Divide pass would be yet more direct. My experience is that Csoloradans typically find Sierra talus omnipresent and irritating. I think you'll be slower going over this route than this plan projects. But I applaud the ambition and it's a great route.

[balzaccom]

A couple of general observations.

1. Snow levels will be determined by the weather between now and then. The Sierra snowpack is currently below normal, and well below normal in the Southern Sierra, where most of this trip runs. If this weather continues, either date should work fine, but yes, September is a wonderful time here. Be prepared for at least on storm in September, though. And yeah, any time you're above 10,000 it coul snow. Access to water is rarely an issue in the Sierra.

2. Bushwhacking in the Sierra can range from easy cross-county alkinmg to fighting your way through endless and impenetrable willow thickets. Choose your route to avoid the latter.

3. Bury your poop, pack out your TP. As a volunteer in the Sierra, I am sick to death of finding TP blooms all over the place and having to bury them for you. It's not a personal choice, by the way. Your permit will specify this.

4. As long as you stay in the Wilderness, your permit is good. If you leave the wilderness and come out for a re-supply, you'll need a new permit to enter again. A permit issued in the Inyo National Forest will allow you to continue hiking into SEKI or Yosemite.

[frozenintime]

gardiner pass is a couple miles west of where you show it. not to say it can't be done, but i am not familiar with anyone crossing the ridge your line takes.

king col is often referred to as a "never again" pass for those who've done it.

the 'trail' going over harrison pass listed on usgs maps is no longer extant, and its north side is reported as incredibly steep and loose.

the logistics getting between these two trailhead would be pretty epic. i'd look to enter/exit on the east side for both using a shuttle (there are several people providing that kind of service). exiting at whitney portal is the most obvious choice. shepherd works too, though it's very lightly used and there wouldn't be much of an option for hitching from there.

have fun!

[Wandering Daisy]

For a group with "a few off-trail experiences", I think you are in over your heads. I may be wrong, but it would be wise to have some "plan B" options that detour the parts that may be too much. Class 2-3 passes require experience in micro-route finding. The GPS is no help at this. "Class 2" is a big broad classification that is not very informative. Like others have said, carefully read the pass information on HST have that information with you on the trip.

Personally, I would not do a trip of this magnitude and difficulty as my first trip in a new mountain range. I prefer to "ease" into a new environment with a few shorter trips and test out the terrain. Climbing/pass ratings are quite different in each particular regions of the country. In your favor is that being from Colorado, you know how to deal with storms. Not that you will not get monsoonal conditions in the Sierra, but it is not as common as the Rockies. And you are accustomed to high altitudes. But off-trail is an entirely different game than trails. A 7-mile day is an accomplishment for much off-trail travel.

[agfhst]

If you do end up at Wolverton, the Sequoia Shuttle is an easy, inexpensive way to get from the park down to Visalia, where there is at least one car rental office. https://www.sequoiashuttle.com/

Otherwise, the only shuttle I know of on the western side of the southern Sierra is the more expensive Vermillion Valley/Sierra Mountain shuttle between Fresno and Edison Lake or Florence Lake. https://vvr.place/hikers/sierra-mountai ... index.html

I seem to recall reading someone's description of how they made it from an east side trailhead to a west side trailhead by shuttles and public buses, but it seemed long and not easy.

[papercup]

I agree that this is a heck of a trip (and a very cool one) that might be a bit too much for your experience and amount of time. You could give it a shot, but I'd definitely make sure you've got some options in mind for how to pare it down a bit if you get a few days in and realize you've bitten off too much. On a few of the specifics:

1. Yes, there can be some snow in July, but the amount greatly depends on the year. Thus far this year things aren't looking particularly snowy and I'd think you'd be fine. But we've got a few more months of winter and things can change in a hurry.

3. As far as timing, I always think about balancing the risks of early season (high water, snow, mosquitoes) versus those of late season (dried-out landscapes, fires, possibility of early-season snowstorms if you're late enough). I like to err a little bit on the early side because I like water and wildflowers. I agree with Paul that August is usually the safest month, but depending on the year things can vary.

4. I never wear gaiters. I don't think bushwhacking is usually too bad as long as you're staying high and avoiding off-trail ascents/descents of rivers and creeks.

7. You'll be fine. I usually carry two liters but am confident I could get by with one.

On the route itself:

frozenintime is correct that King Col and Harrison Pass are probably the toughest parts of your route. For King Col, one thing that you could consider would be: From Bench Lake, take White Fork Pass to White Fork Saddle and descend the Window drainage to the trail. Take the trail south to the vicinity of Rae Lakes. From here, you could just stay on trail, you could divert into Sixty Lakes Basin and then over Rae Col back to the trail, or you could go through Sixty Lakes Basin, over Sixty Lakes Basin to Gardiner Basin, and then over Gardiner Pass to Charlotte Lake (although note frozenintime's point about where Gardiner Pass is located as well). This would be easier than trying to deal with King Col (and I think -- although I haven't done it and would defer to those who have -- that doing White Fork > Window would be easier than Arrow Pass > trail). It'd also give you a little break in the middle of your trip from what would otherwise be basically non-stop challenging cross-country.

For Harrison Pass, there's no real easy option here, but from what I've read Little Joe sounds preferable. Or there's the trail option of Forester Pass a bit to the east.

You've got yourself dropping from Barrett Lakes straight down to the trail. I understand that's a bit of a beast. Might be preferable to either just take the trail to LeConte Canyon, or to continue over Potluck and Cirque Passes. From there, you could either backtrack a bit to access Amphitheatre via Cataract Creek, as you have it mapped, or you could continue over Mather Pass and access Amphitheatre via Upper Basin Crossing.

Finally, I agree with wanderingdaisy that this is probably too much for ten days and for your described experience level. I'm not sure how long I'd budget for this but I'm guessing at least fourteen, and then I'd have to worry about food resupply somewhere. I'd at least consider shortening it, and exiting via an east-side trailhead.

That said, it's a very cool route that passes through some incredible places. I can see planning for it but having some real bail-out modifications in mind. There are some good TR's floating around this website that cover good chunks of it. The excellent "Lonely Copper Cloud" TR that's floating around near the top of the forum has some great shots of some of the later portions of your route. I covered the chunk between Arrow Peak and Amphitheatre Lake this summer. My TR is (viewtopic.php?t=23707), and a number of other folks also posted good ones recently. Isaacr posted a good one (viewtopic.php?t=23983) that covers Lakes Basin through to Gardiner Basin (utilizing the White Fork / Window / Sixty Lakes alternative instead of your proposed Arrow / King Col route).

[maxr22]

Given that you are trying to go for 10 day trip of this length, I would assume your kit is very light. Much of your route requires you to store food in a hard sided container, and the areas that do not require a hard sided container will probably not have adequate trees (high elevation) for a counter balance. I hope you find the below map helpful in planning for your trip.
https://www.nps.gov/seki/planyourvisit/ ... 0729-2.pdf

From North to South this is my only small comments on passes.

Cataract Creek Pass (which is labeled observation pass on your caltopo). Your mapped line to the pass is good, much easier than the way I went. I went along the shore of amphitheater. If there is a cornice on it, go west around it.

Dumbbell Pass. The Secor guidebook recommends going west around dumbbell lakes rather than east. I found dumbbell pass very fun. Paraphrased excerpt from Secor (note this is coming from south to north, so reverse direction from you).

Head west across the talus to a narrow snow gully. Descend the snow gully/talus on its sides to a grassy ledge system that leads west. Continue on the ledges to a small buttress and descend class 2 talus gullies to the southwestern shore of lake 11,108. Talus hop around this lake on its western shore. Class 3 Variation: Instead of descending the gullies beneath the small buttress, continue traversing west to a series of steep slabs that lead down to lake 11,108.

Attached below is the gully I took.

Cartridge Pass. This one you should be able to see on sight and just go straight up and down. The north side is loose.

Descending from arrow basin down to woods creek. I have not been in Arrow basin before. I would suggest searching on this website for trip reports with Arrow Basin because there might be a more efficient way down.

That is all I have regarding the route.

Logistically, say the trip is taking longer than expected and you need to resupply. Your most convenient resupply exit is going to be Kearsarge pass. It is a popular trailhead and you will be able to get a hitch into town easily, as well as the least amount of deviation from your route. Unless you are a trail runner/mountain runner/semi ultra-(insert sport) athlete I would budget at least 15 days.

I think https://www.eastsidesierrashuttle.com/ may be willing to shuttle you back to your car from wolverton because they do offer a shuttle service for the HST, but it will be more than $800.

[FrankPS]

I think https://www.eastsidesierrashuttle.com/ may be willing to shuttle you back to your car from wolverton because they do offer a shuttle service for the HST, but it will be more than $800.

Have you used Eastside Shuttle in the last few years? Thieves. May or may not pick you up.