Mid Layer Clothes

[Schleppy]

A 100 wt fleece is incredibly versatile when paired with a baggy wind or rain shell. August in Ansel Adams? The only thing I'd add to your kit is a lightweight wind shell and some cheap fleece gloves.

At less than 4 oz a good, baggy wind shell (Eg. Patagoina Hoodini or Hoodini Stash sized up) would compliment your kit very nicely. Bring along your lightweight down jacket – which you say fits well over the fleece – and you should be plenty warm while stargazing.

If it were me at elevation in August, I'd wear the long sleeve T while active, keeping the 100wt fleece and a windbreaker accessible should they become necessary. Maybe the poncho if thunderstorms are predicted.

At camp, I'd get cleaned up before the temperature dips and throw on my long underwear and clean socks. My pants and fleece would go on over the long underwear. I'd put my clean-socked feet in some bread bags and put my shoes back on with the insoles removed.

As the temps dip, I'd put on the windbreaker. Down rurther? Lightweight down jacket goes over the fleece with the windbreaker over that. Add gloves and a beanie and I'd be fine sitting around into the mid 40s.

If it gets too cold, it's time to retreat into a sleeping bag wearing only the clean socks and long underwear.

[bald tires]

I have light weight fleece gloves. Sorry I forgot to mention those. I also have what I call a face shield that covers my entire face up to my eyes. Left over from when I used to ski. I don't take that when backpacking. If the weather might get so bad that I need that I'm not going.

I have been reading about light weight windbreakers/rain jackets. Unless I am misunderstanding what I am reading people are saying that these light weight rain jackets soak through after a couple of hours of rain and no longer keep you dry. You get wet. Why would anybody buy a rain jacket that doesn't keep you dry no matter how long it is raining.

[Schleppy]

Why would anybody buy a rain jacket that doesn't keep you dry no matter how long it is raining.

Yeah, one could easily make the argument that lightweight rain shells are not truly worth it. The topic of "breathable" rain shells is debated ad nauseam, on this forum and online in general. However, one should make the distinction between a wind shell and a lightweight rain shell. A wind shell is not something anyone should expect to fend off more than the lightest of drizzles or a setting dew. It cut's wind and significantly boosts the insulating potential of a mid layer. That's it.

For me and probably many others, it's just about the right tool for job.

If it's not expected to rain, or rain very, very little, a 4 oz windbreaker is fine. It will fend off some light precipitation/dew and also cut a chilly wind. Even in no wind/precipitation, it will maximize the insulating potential of a fleece or mid-weight layer. It's also much more comfortable to wear than a heavier garment.

If there is a greater chance of some precipitation that won't last for terribly long, a sub 12 oz rain shell is probably worth the extra weight and will still work great to boost a fleece's insulation weather it is raining or not.

If rain is in the forecast or the risk of extended amounts/periods of precipitation warrants concern, then a either a heavier rain shell or something like an impermeable silnylon poncho may be called for.

Personally, I almost always bring my Hoodini. Even when packing a heavier shell. It is incredibly light, fits in a pant pocket, and is a great way to add significant warmth or help fend off some mild weather while on the move.

I suggest a wind shell to you specifically because you already have a robust rain barrier (your poncho). Given your current kit and the time of year/location referenced, I think the most appropriate (lightest and cheapest) approach would be to increase the warmth of the insulation you already own (100wt fleece + light down jacket) with a wind shell.

August in Ansel Adams may come with some passing afternoon thunderstorms, but for the most part the weather should be mild on the precipitation front. There shouldn't be much chance walking through torrents for hours on end and so wetting out a lightweight rain shell is unlikely. If there is some kind of freak event where it does rain heavily for a long time, I would not be standing out in it but rather below tree line and probably under a tarp.

In an abundance of caution, you may care to bring your poncho. It's just difficult for me imagine wearing it as a layer specifically to boost your fleece and down jacket's insulating potential. That's where a wind shell is clutch.

Bottom line: long underwear, 100wt fleece, light down jacket, windshell, pants, wool socks, fleece gloves and a beanie... you should be able to stand outside on a 42 degree night, even if you are not very cold tolerant. Rae Lakes in August is very unlikely to drop below the mid 40s any time you wouldn't already be budded up in a sleeping bag. If concerned about rain, do bring that poncho.

[wildhiker]

Why would anybody buy a rain jacket that doesn't keep you dry no matter how long it is raining.

August in Ansel Adams may come with some passing afternoon thunderstorms, but for the most part the weather will be very mild on the precipitation front. There will be no walking through torrents for hours on end and so there will be no real risk of wetting out a lightweight rain shell.

Never say never! On August 5, 2022, I walked in moderate to heavy rain for 7 hours heading from the Rush Creek area of the Ansel Adams Wilderness over Donohue Pass towards Tuolumne Meadows. Glad I had my Gore-Tex parka and coated rain pants!
-Phli

[Schleppy]

Never say never! On August 5, 2022, I walked in moderate to heavy rain for 7 hours heading from the Rush Creek area of the Ansel Adams Wilderness over Donohue Pass towards Tuolumne Meadows. Glad I had my Gore-Tex parka and coated rain pants!
-Phli

Point taken! Advice amended.

[bald tires]

If I do the hike starting in the Ansel Adams Wilderness I will leave my car at the Isberg Pass trailhead. Hike over to the Mammoth trailhead and take the Mammoth trail to Red's Meadow. Then north on the JMT to Tuolumne Meadows. Then south past Vogelsagne (sp?) to the trail along the Merced River and finally over Isberg Pass back to my car. I hike 8 to 10 miles per day. 10 days hiking with maybe a zero day at Tuolumne Meadow.

If I do the Rae Lakes loop. It will be 3 days to Rae Lakes. 2 days over to 60 lakes and back. 1 day over Glen Pass. 1 to 2 days back to roads end.

This is my gear.
Much modified Jansport pack. 2 lbs 1 oz.
Eureka Solitaire tent with tryvek ground sheet, 3 season down bag 6 lbs
Foam sleeping pad 1 lb 5 oz
custom esbit stove, cook pot and fuel 1 lb
Down jacket with hood 14 oz
Fleece 1 lb
Long sleeve T shirt
Short sleeve T shirt
Shorts
Convertible pants
2 pairs of socks
Long underwear bottom
2 pairs underwear
fleece gloves
fleece beenie
Poncho
BV400 bear canister
Hat with bug netting
Platypus hoser
Platypus 2 liter
Katadyn water filter Its heavy and I should replace it with something lighter
first aid
Rattlesnake bite kit My daughter insists that I have this
Misc other stuff like small towel, soap, repair tape, bug spray, map, compass etc.

I haven't weighed the pack with everything in it. Probably 18 to 20 lbs.

I don't carry a gps or PLB. I never go off trail. IMHO opinion if you can't navigate with a compass and map you have no business being out in the wilderness. It never ceases to amaze me how people have lost all sense of direction since the wide spread use of the gps. One of my best friends who sailed thousands of open ocean miles navigating by sextant, compass and charts now can't even drive around the block without his gps telling him where to go. Sorry for the rant. If I have offended anyone, please accept my apology.

[Harlen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do9wxnTgRDU&t=22s

Hey Mickri, et al.
This post made me remember, and dig up this video by the famed young backpacker guru Andrew Skurka. In it he talks about the mid-layer choices, which is the original topic of this post. He also discusses the question of lightweight raingear. He too describes it as simply delaying the soaking, rather than expecting full water-proofness. That has certainly been our experience with raingear-- it's water resistant, and not water-proof. Perhaps that's because we are unwilling to spend money on the very best gear, and to replace it frequently. Our class of rain jacket begins pretty watertight, and that decreases quickly over time.
Mickri, I too spend some of my life on the ocean, both as a commercial diver, and as crew on salmon boats up in Alaska. Helly Hansen all the way!
Full-on waterproof, but heavy and sweaty gear that I would almost never choose to use backpacking. Anyhow, I hope you enjoy the Skurka video. Tah nks for your post, Harlens.

[bald tires]

My first set of real rain gear was yum yum yellow Helly Hansen. Still have it and it is still waterproof. One of the alleged reasons most light weight rain gear loses its waterproofing is that when washed especially in a washing machine the silicone waterproof coating gets washed away. This happened to a set of West Marine Third Reef gear that I had.

Interesting video. Thanks for posting it.

I am still torn about the middle layer. The Silver Peak wilderness is not far from my house. It is along the coast. So can be cold and damp in the winter and spring. I am going to do a 3 or 4 day hike in late February, early March to test out various mid layers. The whole loop is only 17 miles with lots of places to camp. Don't need a wilderness permit. Besides the fleece I am going to bring a light wool sweater that I have and my long sleeve shirt that I have worn in the past. The turtleneck too.

[Schleppy]

I am still torn about the middle layer. The Silver Peak wilderness is not far from my house. It is along the coast. So can be cold and damp in the winter and spring. I am going to do a 3 or 4 day hike in late February, early March to test out various mid layers. The whole loop is only 17 miles with lots of places to camp. Don't need a wilderness permit. Besides the fleece I am going to bring a light wool sweater that I have and my long sleeve shirt that I have worn in the past. The turtleneck too.

A shakedown cruise is always a good idea, but why not bring exactly what you intend to bring to the mountains? Otherwise you may not be getting a real picture of things.

I am confident that for August in Ansel Adams, a 100wt fleece plus a down jacket is plenty of torso insulation if worn under a barrier such as a light raincoat or windbreaker. I am evangelizing, but cannot stress enough how much an outer shell boosts the warmth provided by those insulating layers. Even something like a cheap Frogg Toggs jacket from Cabella's is well worth a few ounces for what it adds.

[oleander]

I'm a really cold sleeper. My system is:
1. Lightweight, long sleeve shirt as base layer
2. Ugly Vest from the Goodwill, made of a cashmere mix. Cashmere, lambswool, angora, alpaca, etc. have incredible warmth per weight - by a factor of 2x to 5x better over merino wool - so all you need is a thin one. Mine weighs just 4 ounces and is incredibly warm. Normally the vest is for evenings & sleep system, but in a pinch I can, and have, hiked in it. Like "regular" wool, these natural materials breathe well and will still keep you warm if they happen to get wet. You get a vest, rather than a sleeved thing, so that you have one fewer layers of sleeves to cramp you up when you must have everything on.
3. Down jacket. When my last, non-hooded one bit the dust, I decided to replace it with a hooded one, and found myself surprised how much of a difference that makes.
4. Rainjacket, sized up so that can fit over all of the above if it's especially cold out
5. Neckwarmer. This will help you if you miss your turtleneck.
6. Warm cap, nice socks etc. are a given