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Wandering Daisy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 4:00 pm
I always wonder if or when the heavily used zones in Desolation are going to require you to carry out your poop, like the Whitney Zone. Half Moon Lake in Desolation was the place the marmots dug up the poop I buried. They were VERY bold! I was worried about them chewing on my tent.
When you say Desolation is the most used Wilderness, is that based on just overnight backpacking or do they include day-hiking? I have found that there are many more day-hikers than backpackers, and the day-use impacts get into the more remote regions because it is such a small Wilderness. But I doubt many day-hikers poop in the woods.
I don't agree, Daisy. Desolation sees more people per square mile than any other wilderness, partly because there are so many destionations within an easy dayhike. And that's where we see most of the problem. Once you get beyond five miles, this isn't much of an issue, but I at the very point where most dayhikers would turn around for the return trip, it's a major issue. Backpackers carry the gear to deal with this; dayhikers don't.
I recall a Forest Service research paper many years ago about human waste in Wilderness. In one site (Eagle Cap Wilderness IIRC) pathogens were still viable after 18 months of proper burial.
Other research projects outlined morning CO levels in valley bottoms from campfires smoldering all night (elevated but not a danger level) and hydrocarbon levels in lakes from spilled stove fuel (potentially a problem in popular areas).
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Log off and get outdoors!
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dave54 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2024 11:30 am
Other research projects outlined morning CO levels in valley bottoms from campfires smoldering all night (elevated but not a danger level) and hydrocarbon levels in lakes from spilled stove fuel (potentially a problem in popular areas).
I'd be inclined to believe the spilled hydrocarbon theory has a different cause. A little spilled fuel goes a long way but were are talking about millions and millions of gallons of water. What defines problematic? I conjure the ration is below one in a trillion parts. Light hydro carbons (i.e. white gas) will readily evaporate off the surface of the water with a bit of sun and breeze and no be an water issue, albeit perhaps an atmospheric concern. It would take sloppy pouring of stove fuel by a huge number of campers to create water borne pollution of any significance. I bet soap pollution is more problematic.
Ed
Wandering Daisy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 12:53 pm
Talk about yuk factor- a time ago NOLS (National Outdoor Leadership School) did an experiment with the Forest Service where they tested leaving the poop out- by scraping it on a rock and let the sunshine "treat" it, instead of burying. Tested samples showed this really worked. But obviously the aesthetic factor of dried poop on rocks, whether sterilized or not, made this method dead on arrival.
The "smear" method. I heard about this on the Trail Show several years ago. It does not appeal to me either.
Even on day hikes, I bring along a tent stake to dig a cat hole, TP, wet nap (just in case), and a bag to put the used paper in. I honestly don't see what the big deal is unless day hikers just don't know how to dispose of #2, which would have been the case for me when I was younger. I didn't hear about it until I started backpacking. It's the backpackers that refuse to pack out their refuse that get me. I heard a guy arguing with a Ranger when he went to pick up his permit about packing out TP (among other rules that he disagreed with). I don't know why she gave him his permit unless it was to avoid a bigger scene.
I also volunteer in Desolation and tp is one of my pet peeves too.
I've started bringing extra ziplock bags. When I make contact with hikers I'll ask if they have a bag to carry out their tp and if not, I offer them one. If nothing else, it's a friendly backcountry reminder and a solution for those that didn't plan ahead.
shampeon wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 6:18 pm
I'm going to try a back-country bidet thing I 3D printed to attach to a small Smartwater bottle for my upcoming through hike. At the very least, it should reduce the amount of TP I need to pack.
My brother made one out of a simple plastic soda bottle - just drill a hole under the lip of where the lid screws on with a small drill bit (1/16 or so), angled down towards the bottom of the bottle. Worked great!
Harlen wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2024 7:19 am
I can dig tremendous holes with big, sharp rocks, or branches, and my claws. Haven't used tp for decades. Snow balls are the best, some pines cones work great, Mule ears are the finest leaves (sometimes we'll pack them up with us from the front country), round rock, sharp rocks.... So I'll forego your #11. One question Paul, baring fire restrictions, are tp folks allowed to burn it?
Our #11 might be a platic bread bag for trash bits-- including other folks tp, if not too disgusting. It amazes us how many little bits of trash are left in campsites and fire pits-- usually f-ing foil!
We call Mule's Ear leaves "Mountain Charmin", although it's not always available depending on the season. WAY better than TP!
mschnaidt wrote: ↑Mon Jul 29, 2024 8:07 am
I also volunteer in Desolation and tp is one of my pet peeves too.
I've started bringing extra ziplock bags. When I make contact with hikers I'll ask if they have a bag to carry out their tp and if not, I offer them one. If nothing else, it's a friendly backcountry reminder and a solution for those that didn't plan ahead.
Great idea!
Today I wrapped up two days in Desolation via the Ralston Peak Trail. And as I wandered off from the parking lot at the trailhead to nibble some lunch, there were TP blossoms all over the ground.
For TP management, I recommend "Chef's Review sandwich bags with fold & close top" from Smart & Final. They weigh almost nothing, about 1g each according to my kitchen scale, far less than ziplocs.
My daughter once did a 30-day NOLS course where the students weren't allowed to use toilet paper. She has let me know that she doesn't care to repeat the experience, and I can't say that I blame her.
Of course Mule's Ear is the holy grail of nature's TP, but it's pretty damn hard to come by outside of the foothills. But if Mule's Ear is "Mountain Charmin" as noted above, corn lily leaves are the cheap, industrial TP you find in public restrooms. They're plenty serviceable, and any Sierra meadow/bog worth its salt is going to have corn lilies growing.
Tested samples showed this really worked. But obviously the aesthetic factor of dried poop on rocks, whether sterilized or not, made this method dead on arrival.
