Most remote location in the sierra?

[texan]

Nice get Jim! I suspect that one could keep plenty busy trying to trace lots of those old trails which undoubtedly have fallen into disrepair either because they are no longer maintained and/or because they have been replaced by a trail taking a different route. After a very long gap between visits, I went looking for the old trail to/from Sawtooth Pass out of Mineral King. The new trail runs along the southern wall of the canyon before reaching Monarch Lakes and the final climb to the pass, whereas the old trail ran along the Northern side of the canyon. It took me a while to find the old trail and it was interrupted frequently by rock-slides which undoubtedly led to the re-routing. It spite of that, there was plenty of evidence of foot traffic on that route. It's more direct, but definitely more cumbersome these days.

For those with more IT moxie than I have, it seems that one could undertake an objective survey of "remote" locations based on the rarity of reports (like, TRs) of folks having ventured to said location. For instance, on that same trip out of Mineral King, I was somewhat surprised to find very few TRs on HST that mentioned Amphitheater Lake. Yes, the one that's all of two miles (or so) as the crow flies from the Mineral King parking lot. This continues the theme that proximity to "civilization" does not necessarily diminish tranquility. Still, it's been my experience that the more distance between you and a trailhead, the fewer folk you run into (unless you're on Roper's route). Cameron

I have only done the old trail like you said to go to Glacier Pass/Sawmill Pass, It goes straight up the mountain to the left or North. That was my first backpacking trip to Spring Lake and Cyclamen in 1980. I never been on the new trail to the south.

Texan

[Gogd]

Nice get Jim! I suspect that one could keep plenty busy trying to trace lots of those old trails which undoubtedly have fallen into disrepair either because they are no longer maintained and/or because they have been replaced by a trail taking a different route.

I've been curious about the old trails that used to continue down Big arroyo Creek, below the Soda Creek Confluence, that once tied into Rattlesnake Creek to the south, and Sky Parlor Meadow to the north. https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=36.441 ... o=r&n=0.25 I think that'd make a fine far side section for a big loop hike out of Mineral King. My research has concluded the old routes are way too obstructed with blow downs and understory flora to make it feasible as a XC without pack animal support.

Ed

[druid]

Nice get Jim! I suspect that one could keep plenty busy trying to trace lots of those old trails which undoubtedly have fallen into disrepair either because they are no longer maintained and/or because they have been replaced by a trail taking a different route.

I've been curious about the old trails that used to continue down Big arroyo Creek, below the Soda Creek Confluence, that once tied into Rattlesnake Creek to the south, and Sky Parlor Meadow to the north. https://caltopo.com/map.html#ll=36.441 ... o=r&n=0.25 I think that'd make a fine far side section for a big loop hike out of Mineral King. My research has concluded the old routes are way too obstructed with blow downs and understory flora to make it feasible as a XC without pack animal support.

Ed

The trail from Big Arroyo to Rattlesnake Creek was in usable shape a few years ago, according to this trip report:
http://www.whitneyzone.com/wz/ubbthread ... ney_Portal
I had a loop that included this segment all planned for 2020 but my plans changed after the Rattlesnake Fire occurred. It's probably not a lot of fun to hike now. I doubt there's much left at all of those historic Sky Parlor trails.

[cgundersen]

Since we're on this theme, I'd looked into doing the old Cartridge creek trail to reach Marion Lake basin (about which there is some info on HST, and spotty hints of remnant trail visible on Google Earth)), but I need to get my buns into Blue Canyon/Tunemah first. Ian knows about that fantasy........Bottom line, there's plenty left to explore up there, but one needs to be prudent in this high snow year. Cameron

[creekfeet]

Thought I’d revive this thread partly because I think it’s a great jumping off point for planning a trip or just pouring over a map, but also because I’m convinced I’ve found the most remote place in the Sierra.

Going through prior comments, it seems like distance from a road/trailhead and difficulty of travel are the two biggest factors in defining remoteness. Personally I think the first criteria is mostly useless. For example, as the crow flies Kern Hot Springs are about as far from a road as you can get in the lower 48, but they’re heavily visited. Conversely, there are places along the Marble Fork within half a mile of the General Sherman that are nearly impossible to get to, and almost never see the likes of man.

Therefore I believe the single biggest criteria defining remoteness is a spot’s desirability, or the likelihood a person would plan on going there. To me this rules out places such as Kaweah Basin/Red Spur whose remoteness is actually a selling point for a certain kind of backpacker.

With this in mind, I’ve been pouring over the seldom visited Monarch Divide section of map, and noticed a chain of lakes on Comb Creek, halfway between the Copper Creek and Lewis Creek Trails. So far as I can tell, they’re only reachable by taking what looks like an extremely steep/sketchy route from Granite Basin or Lake, or doing a hellaciously long bushwhack up the namesake creek from the Lewis Creek Trail. While I imagine the occasional climber bags the high peak on Comb Spur, I doubt many people then descend to the lakes at its base.

Searching the forums, Comb Creek and Comb Spur return zero results, but I’d be curious to know if anyone’s ever been there, or has it on their radar.

[giantbrookie]

It's fun to get this thread revisited. Many years ago, when I replied to this thread I had mentioned Red Spur lakes (I had been there in 2002) and the basin below Tunemah Lake (visited in 2008 as the highlight of the Tunechuck trip) as candidates, as did others, and said that given its scenic beauty and remote feel I wanted to go back to the basin below Tunemah someday. Now, 16 years later I have a wilderness permit reservation for mid August and plan to camp in the basin below Tunemah (in 2008, Todd and I dayhiked there from Blue Canyon) with Dawn and probably layover there for a day in order to fully enjoy it.

Also, since my original replies to this post I've been to a few other places that folks mention, including Pinnacles Creek (in 2015 on a Little Lakes Valley-North Lake shuttle trip aka Gold at the End of the Rainbow). Whereas Pinnacles Creek (both forks) is rather remote, it is close enough to various trails (and easy enough to reach therefrom) that it didn't seem to feel as remote as the basin below Tunemah or Red Spur or, for that matter the brush-infested off trail locations in NW Yosemite, such as Edyth L and the "Emerald Staircase". Last summer (2023), Dawn and I added another one to the list of my favorite NW Yosemite bushwhack destinations: Branigan Lake, although as the crow flies it is not as far from major trails as Edyth is (but the bushwhack from Vernon was brutal). I think it was 2021 on a 9-day Emigrant trip when Todd (who has been with me to Red Spur, basin below Tunemah, Edyth, etc) and I discussed which off trail destination we would most like to revisit. I cast my vote for basin below Tunemah, whereas Todd said that Edyth was the one hard-to-reach place in the Sierra he'd most like to return to. If all goes well, in late August (sometime after Aug. 21) I will post a report on the planned "Tunedardblackchuck" trip. In the meantime, I recently found some of the original photos for Tunechuck 2008 which has been bereft of photos for a number of years (photos were posted offsite at a now defunct URL), so I will bump the refurbished Tunechuck report.

[c9h13no3]

I think what people are after when they go out in search of remoteness is the feeling of being cutoff from society and on your own. Absolute freedom to do what you want, and all the responsibility for your wellbeing landing squarely on your shoulders. I realize Dittli steered the conversation away from feelings in his opening post, but that to me seems worth discussing.

I assume the feeling of remoteness is a bit similar to climbing something scary, you're conquering a fear of sorts and proving yourself. Just a different flavor of fear than say, climbing something with sparse protection that scares you. And that remote feeling, unplugging from society and being independent is probably a healthier feeling than the stress of other types of fear.

I also get that feeling more in places where I'm clearly not the most powerful force out there. Even when I'm in great shape and can run up & down mountains, avalanches, rockfall, or thunder will remind me that I'm a bit more out there away from my usual surroundings. So maybe there's a "forces greater than yourself" component.

And putting some physical barrier in between you and others is probably the easiest way to experience remoteness. Be it some extreme terrain (bushwhacking, a wall of rock, an impassable river), or just distance. And if what we're after is a feeling or experience, then I suppose it doesn't really matter where the most remote place is, you just need something that invokes that feeling for yourself.

IDK, I'm just rambling. But yeah, this is a cool thread.

[thegib]

It's surprisingly hard to define criteria for 'most remote', but any definition that doesn't include the energy, or vibe, or feeling, of the place seems incomplete. East Tunemah, especially when looking further east towards Ragged Spur, with all that distance behind you from any semblance of trail, feels remote to me. But Red Spur lakes had a special energy, an 'unvisitedness', that really wowed me. Now we can have an infinite conversation on whether that energy is internal, or external....

[JosiahSpurr]

. Glacier Monument. Almost nobody has heard of it, and certainly nobody has ever been there. ;-)

[JasonG]

Since we're on this theme, I'd looked into doing the old Cartridge creek trail to reach Marion Lake basin (about which there is some info on HST, and spotty hints of remnant trail visible on Google Earth)), but I need to get my buns into Blue Canyon/Tunemah first. Ian knows about that fantasy........Bottom line, there's plenty left to explore up there, but one needs to be prudent in this high snow year. Cameron

We went up Cartridge creek "trail" last summer. Can't say I'd recommend... there was only a bit of faint trail for the first 3/4 mile and then it was just a schwack until about 3/4mi before Marion.
We were also just coming off the Enchanted Gorge decent and the Goddard Creek schwack, and then the MFKR crossing (in high runoff), so maybe it made it seem worse than it was? It was a mentally taxing couple days...