Curious - trip reports/suggested routes for multi-month sierra trek?

[paul]

I think there are annual limits - and I suspect they vary from one forest to another or one wilderness area to another, and I expect the National parks have their limits as well. But I think those are around 3 or 4 weeks of total stay, so most likely not an issue; but could come into play, so would be worth researching

[JayOtheMountains]

Aggregated tacit knowledge: The maximum stay in most NFS campgrounds is 14 days and a 30 day maximum stay per Ranger District, per calendar year (campground, disbursed, or wilderness camping). National park units limit stays to 30 days per calendar year, each campground with their own occupancy - usually 14 days.

There's multiple NFS units and each unit has multiple districts. Each NPS unit has their rules, but for the sake of conversation SEKI is one unit combined and Yosemite is the other in question.

That is still a fair amount of time available in each district/park unit to explore should one have the ability to go at it in one pull. Insofar as I am aware, the only permits that allow exit/re-entry privileges are PCT through-hike permits (700 miles or more) and JMT permits. All other trips end once you depart the backcountry and would require a new permit for re-entry. I.E. that Cottonwood permit will not get you carte-blanch access from Road's End should you resupply there. You'd need another permit to continue; but aside from a few places who's checking? (I'm not condoning that behavior.)

(However, if you were to descend Bubbs Creek and meet someone at the bridge where Bubbs creek and S. Fork of the King meet and then continue up Paradise Valley, you'd be fine. But if you were to descend Bubbs Creek, resupply at Road's End, then continue up Copper Creek you'd need a new permit. Even though you just barely reached the parking lot there.)

[Wandering Daisy]

It would seem that the total stay time allowed would be part of the permit system. Thus, if you can get the permit, it is legal. If it is not incorporated into the permit system, I would not worry about it as long as you have a valid permit. If on any section someone joins you, then a permit in their name would solve the problem.

[JayOtheMountains]

It's not going to be on the permit. That's a NFS regulation and a separate NPS regulation. These rules are buried on their websites deep in regulatory matter. If all the rules/regulations were printed on the permit, we'd be carrying phone books around!

36 CFR 261.58(a) is invoked and clarified at all NPS units in the Sierras (Yosemite, SEKI, Devil's Postpile) and all NFS units under the area we're discussing. The rules are the rules whether you know of them explicitly or not, in the case of stay duration/limitations they're generally part of a broader forest order from the forest manager; for Park units it's also out there. The rules for Yosemite were further clarified as climbers skirted the, then, backcountry rules and exceeded the 30-day stay by placing camp a pitch up some face somewhere. Now Yosemite is 30 days, regardless of front/backcountry distinguishment. SEKI (insofar as I've been able to find) has followed suit in language.

[Wandering Daisy]

A ranger asks for your permit. Say you have gone back and obtained a new permit every 7-10 days. How is the ranger going to tell that you have exceeded your "total annual" allowable days? It seems like if the permit system does not track how many days you spend on each entity, and you get all the permits you have requested, there is no way that ranger is going to know. On the other hand, perhaps the permits WILL someday track your stays then it would simply not issue you a permit after you exceed your limit.

I think the "rule" is more to keep people from "living" on public lands, setting up a camp for the summer. The number of backpackers who will spend 4 months in one season the Sierra is very small. I have never heard of anyone backpacker cited for exceeding this limit. Seriously, if it is hidden in a CFR it is ridiculous to expect the average person to know it. Now, if perhaps the one ranger that meets you, and does so every week he may go back and look at permits, but I really doubt he cares. He has a lot bigger problem backpackers to go after.

I have actually met what I think were homeless people in the Wind Rivers a few years ago. They had a large established, obviously nearly permanent campsite hidden in trees.

[Flamingo]

Hey @Sierrasnob, I love this thread. It's something I often daydream about. In August 2018, I crossed paths with a kid in his mid-20's that was doing a Sierra "Yo-Yo" over 3 months. He had started at Kennedy Meadows (south) in mid-June, and hiked northbound following a combination of the PCT and Roper's SHR. At South Lake Tahoe, he turned around and headed southbound following a route that was further west from the crest, sometimes using the Theodore Solomons Trail. We crossed paths at Roads End, as he was descending Copper Creek. When I asked about resupply, he said his last two had been entirely free; he just took leftover stuff from the free hiker boxes at VVR and MTR... ha! (Although, having seen those boxes, I imagine he was eating a lot of stale oatmeal and ramen).

[Lumbergh21]

Hey @Sierrasnob, I love this thread. It's something I often daydream about. In August 2018, I crossed paths with a kid in his mid-20's that was doing a Sierra "Yo-Yo" over 3 months. He had started at Kennedy Meadows (south) in mid-June, and hiked northbound following a combination of the PCT and Roper's SHR. At South Lake Tahoe, he turned around and headed southbound following a route that was further west from the crest, sometimes using the Theodore Solomons Trail. We crossed paths at Roads End, as he was descending Copper Creek. When I asked about resupply, he said his last two had been entirely free; he just took leftover stuff from the free hiker boxes at VVR and MTR... ha! (Although, having seen those boxes, I imagine he was eating a lot of stale oatmeal and ramen).

I relied on the hikers buckets at those two locations along with purchased food at Reds and VVR. Unfortunately, I believe that MTR did away with their hiker buckets, CoVid being the excuse, which makes this approach much more difficult. As to leaving the trail and re-entering, this is only strictly forbidden in Yosemite Valley. Everywhere else, you are allowed to leave the trail and re-enter so long as you do it in a reasonable period of time, seems that 24 hours works. This came up on the JMT Facebook page in 2020 when they changed the rules about leaving the trail to reportedly deal with PCTers exiting then re-entering weeks or even months later. After a public meeting with much outcry, they relented and allowed for resupply from Onion Valley, South Lake, etc. Technically, you are leaving the park when you resupply at VVR or Reds (they specifically mentioned that Parcher's was ok for some reason so long as you walked to it and back) or if you cross the road at Tuolumne Meadows (Yosemite eventually relented on that, but still no leaving the trail in the Valley for a hot meal and a shower). Now good luck filling out a 100 day itinerary.

[Harlen]

Sierrasnob, like Flamingo, I too love your post! So thanks. You have many of us dancing all around the Sierra in our minds, trying out versions of your grand plan. Taking what I have learned from the Comments, I now know that I am twice a rogue and a felon for stashing food in bear boxes, along with my stretching of dog rules. The former was decades ago, and I assume-- no longer an actionable offense.

The guy Flamingo met was seemingly set on long, linear routes. Others above have written about more widely exploratory routes. I still like my zig-zagging, east west route idea, using a few key ( and legal) places to resupply-- Parcher's Camp, VVR, Red's Meadow, the TM Store, and then a few meetups with helpful friends like bobby49. I would think some easy places to meet friends with new food for you would be on top of Sonora Pass, Carson Pass, and at Florence Lake. I guess what Lumbergh wrote about technicalities complicates the TM Store food pick up, and VVR too?:

Lumbergh21 wrote:

Technically, you are leaving the park when you resupply at VVR or Reds (they specifically mentioned that Parcher's was ok for some reason so long as you walked to it and back) or if you cross the road at Tuolumne Meadows (Yosemite eventually relented on that, but still no leaving the trail in the Valley for a hot meal and a shower). Now good luck filling out a 100 day itinerary.

I agree that filling in 100 days without a lot of overlapping might be difficult, but what about this "butterfly wings" plan. My idea is to fill 96 Sierra days by hiking out, and circling back to 2 or more food locations-- one of them would surely be the TM store. One great out and back from there, could be up along the Main Divide- say over McCabe Saddle, or Sky Pilot Pass, and then carrying on for 12 total days, enjoying on and off-trail rambles by Rock Island Lake, under the Sawtooth Ridge, Kerrick Meadows, and wherever you like in the far NE of the Park. You would then return in a circle to the TM store for your next 12 day bucket of food, and you could head into the SE corner of the Park, making your favorite circle back again, without any overlap. A really fine third "wing" would be through the southern part of the Cathedral Range, and into the magic backcountry of the upper Merced. You could circle the Clark Range on your third return to the TM store. The 4th "wing" could include the Grand Canyon of the T., and the far NW corner of Yosemite. I can see each of these as 12 day trips, if you include some mountain climbing days, and lazy fishing days. This could be repeated from a base at VVR, or MTR, or even Red Meadow, if you can find your way all around the Middle and North Forks of the SJ River.

So what do you think Lumbergh-- might those 8 trips be a good use of 100 days? And the second ones are dog friendly!

Or you could just move into this cabin, in the middle of the range, and pretend you did all those miles.

[SSSdave]

@Sierrasnob >>>"...I imagine spending 4 months in the SIerra would be the ultimate."

Easy notion to day dream over but I'd bet most solo persons that have never done extended multiple trips, that actually went through with such multi trip back to back plans would not last long. Good luck in any case. Many folk on group trips barely cope with week long trips before a long list of issues have them bailing for front country burgers and beer. A reason PCT trips work is supporting company with many like trudging others both on trails and especially getting from trailheads to towns and back. Solo, one better be able to actually enjoy oneself with activities beyond just relatively boringly walking trails and routes for miles while understanding little about the natural history etc. Thus the peakbagger, fisherman, photographer with a purpose.

Given the deep snowpack, not a wise choice on a year like this. Likely to be blocked by snow and river crossings June through mid July. Although one could obtain permit reservations for specific periods, unless there were significant days between each trip, it is unlikely such would roll out as expected. One stormy Mexican monsoon weather period and it is done. Then will be stuck with obtaining permits on the fly. Given quota limitations for popular trailheads, unlikely. Not always easy to travel from trailheads to the small towns hitchhiking either way unless one has lined up transportation months beforehand.

Versus dealing with getting from trailheads to towns and back, better to stash bear canisters with non perishable food below wilderness boundaries near trailheads in totally shaded cool locations no one will find. Might take a shovel along. A more likely successful strategy would be to commit to using a vehicle for a few out and back trips from the Eastern Sierra with a week or so for logistics between each.

[Harlen]

@Sierrasnob wrote:.

I imagine spending 4 months in the Sierra would be the ultimate.

Dave:

Easy notion to day dream over but I'd bet most solo persons that have never done extended multiple trips, that actually went through with such multi trip back to back plans would not last long.

Oh well SierraS., I suppose ol' Dave is right.... all those boring miles on the trail, and you must've forgot about all of the baseball games you'd be missing.
Winnie the Pooh asked, “Lovely day, isn’t it?” And Eeyore responds in true Eeyore fashion: “Wish I could say yes, but I can’t.”
Maybe Dave has it right when he wrote:

....better to stash beer canisters... a more likely successful strategy...

I wish I could wish you luck SS, but now I can't.