Permit itinerary requirement

[scottmiller]

Hi, I have scoured the Internet looking for a definitive answer and I can't find one, which is, I guess, some sort of definitive answer.
Anyway, is a backpacker required to stick to the itinerary on their permit? I have almost never done so, but I encountered a young hiker who was in a dilemma because of weather and whatnot and wanted to camp somewhere not on her itinerary, so I told her that the itinerary is not required. I hope I didn't steer her wrong. I have also heard, on this forum, random comments about changing the itinerary as if it was not allowed.
I was once stopped by a ranger at Ediza Lake when I should have been at Nydiver Lakes because Whitebark Pass looked unpleasant so I went another way. I vaguely remember having a discussion with her about the itinerary change, but with no ultimate consequence.

[bobby49]

There are some national parks that do require you to stick to your itinerary. Glacier comes to mind. However, for national parks within California, I am not aware of any that way. Nor am I aware of any national forests that way.

Basically, the parks are trying to make sure that backpackers are not crowded up in one spot, especially some place one day's travel in from a popular trailhead. They avoid that problem by having the backpacker commit to one itinerary.

[Wandering Daisy]

Most permits will require the first night as stated on the permit. Then you can go as you please and come out your permitted trailhead. Cannot go out Whitney Zone unless you have a specific permit for it. Rock Creek is also bit odd because there are different quotas depending on which way you go. In general, they are very picky if you are on a very popular trail.

I have bailed out to different trailheads other than what was on my permit a few times with no problems with the permit because I did not run into a ranger. But it was awkward to get back to my car (hitched). I have not always followed the first night rule but I then stealth camped away from the trail.

You never have to stick to your permitted campsite if it is not safe to get there, particularly if you have to go over a high pass. I have many times set up before I reached my permitted first night to avoid lightning on a pass. Safety always trumps permit rules.

I rarely ask a ranger or front desk about this when getting a permit, because they really cannot tell you it is OK to break any rule. I think when in the field, most rangers are pretty reasonable if you have a good reason to explain why you are not at your designated first night spot.

[balzaccom]

Daisy has it right for California--first night is a requirement, after that you are allowed to alter your itinerary for any number of reasons, from weather conditions to your own health.

HOWEVER: this is not true for Yosemite permits for Half Dome or Donahue Pass. You cannot alter your itinerary to include either of those--because they are restricted by quotas.

And as Bobby points out, in Yellowstone and Glacier, your itinerary often includes specfic campsites---and you cannot change those on the fly.

[scottmiller]

Thanks for the information. The first night is usually reliably predictable, at least within a few miles.

[Lumbergh21]

You also need to be off trail by the date stated on your permit. I typically put a day or two extra on the permit just in case, so I've never had a problem with this. I did see a young man having this problem in Yosemite with a ranger at TM. He was hoping to get an extra day to finish his northbound JMT hike and was told absolutely no.

[ironmike]

You also need to be off trail by the date stated on your permit. I typically put a day or two extra on the permit just in case, so I've never had a problem with this. I did see a young man having this problem in Yosemite with a ranger at TM. He was hoping to get an extra day to finish his northbound JMT hike and was told absolutely no.

I think it is irresponsible to pad your permit with extra backcountry days unless you have a pretty good idea you’ll use them. Like others have stated, if something comes up and you need the extra time, most rangers in the field will look the other way.

[Wandering Daisy]

ironmike- can you explain how adding a day or two to your permit for contingency causes any problems. I may be missing something. I thought your entry date was the part that took up permit space and the end date made no difference. As for safety, my family knows my schedule and that I may be out a day more. They are not going to panic. The Whitney zone may be different. I would say about half the time I either come out a day early or stay an additional day. I always add one day on my permit for contingency. If I use the extra day, it is usually because I caught enough fish to have the food to stay longer.

[ironmike]

I value the wilderness, and I feel a responsibility to accurately plan my impact upon it. This is no different than the concern I’ve heard you voice many many times about people that don’t cancel permits that they have no intention of using. Whether the issue is logistical/legal (as in permit availability), or environmental (as in the number of person/days inflicted on sensitive ecosystems), I think that modern times call for a more sensitivity in regards to our role in treading lightly and accurately planning our interaction with this precious high country.

It’s not unreasonable to think that some day the NPS (or recreation.gov) may charge by the day for our wilderness permits. Maybe y’all might reconsider this topic then, but I take it seriously now.

[Wandering Daisy]

Adding a contingency day IS accurately estimating one's impact. Anyone who thinks they can exactly plan to the day is kidding themselves. I agree that if you took this to mean multiple days, that would perhaps be bad planning. My impact is my impact, whether written on the permit or not. If and when the permits are paid per day, I would still add the contingency day. To me that is simply safe and conservative trip planning. If I do not have to use the contingency, then I have less impact. This does not take a permit day from some other person; it is not like not going in the day you are permitted which messes with the quota system. But perhaps we are splitting hairs.