Spring 2017 Backpacking Cautionary Thread

[mrphil]

I don't think that any tangent on this particular thread can go too far afield of what the issues are when it comes to man vs nature. Nature is what it is...the river can be high and fast, the cliff can be unstable, the trail can be covered with snow or nonexistent, animals will attack you if you don't respect their boundaries, etc. It all just sits there until we throw ourselves into and do whatever we end up doing. Take a million people dealing with the same thing and you potentially have a million new variables. We're talking about human nature: ego, inexperience, arrogance, misjudgement, stupidity....That's when and where the problems begin and end, and any discussion that examines those from the standpoint of being either assets or liabilities in success or failure are as relevant and germane as what it is to be a any given human dealing with any given situation that any one of us encounters.

Here you go:

...you don't see the gun sitting there and firing by itself

[sambieni]

And all of that is why a pre-trip meeting is necessary for a group, especially if they are unknowns.

The trail hiking and no compass skills is a problem, because this is a Spring 2017 thread, most of the trails are buried.

Not a problem on unfamiliar trails this year,my hiking ends were the dirt ends.

I learned this lesson the hard way last summer. And I too am an only on-trails, often solo backpacker who may be similar skillset as you.

Sorry if this sounds sanctimonious.

My buddy and I were in Yosemite doing High Sierra Route. We were coming down from Cloud's Rest heading to Merced Lake.
About 1-2 miles before reaching the JMT around Sunrise Creeks we paused and took a little detour to explore and get more water; the trail seemed to ran out on us into a bog/meadow area and we figured we'd walk around it and catch it on the other side. We refilled our water and then walked a bit. We realized finding the trail was not gonna be easy and we back tracked to get to where it should have been. By that point, we screwed up and realizd we were not going to find it. We then had to go overland about 3/4 mile to reach the JMT, including a creek crossing. I am grateful it was end of season and not this year's snow melt. We made a quick mistake, but we could not recover from it. I had a compass, but not really trained up on it yet. Thankfully my map skills were solid - my buddy's were not and had we followed him, we would have gone down really rough terrain - and I navigated us safely; this was aided largely by still plenty of hours of daylight, plenty of morning energy, great weather, and thinned trees due to fires years prior. We had lots of luck on our side overall. But I knew too that were it late in the day, dense forest, and possibly some rain, this could have been much, much worse. Our detour set us back maybe 30 minutes, but also included my iphone (camera and GPS) that fell from my pocket during our scramble, and lots of emotions/nerves between me and my buddy that could have ruined our trip w/ a lesser friendship. I have since studied the map and I know we were no more than 20-30 feet from it for a portion of our overland and in fact, we probably crossed it once or twice w/out realizing it.

The next day too, on our way from Merced to Vogelsang, we were both on trail and hiked separately for a portion. When we both got into camp we recounted how we both lost the marked trail at exactly the same spot and scrambled a few minutes to regain it. For each of us it was 5 minutes of our hike. But 5 minutes, alone, in best of weather conditions can still feel like an eternity.

In either instance, I always followed trails. And in both instances, I learned just how quick the Sierra trails can fool you.

I am great at trails. Great at maps, etc. But all that is to say, this past spring I took compass training w/ REI. I hope I never need to use it.

[mrphil]

I am great at trails. Great at maps, etc. But all that is to say, this past spring I took compass training w/ REI. I hope I never need to use it.

I don't want to sound sanctimonious either, but the REI course is only giving you the basics for how to begin to use the compass and navigate. You should "hope" you never need to use it in an emergency, but without using it, you don't/won't really know how to use it when it counts. You make your own skill sets only with real-world practice and making it second nature. Every opportunity you get...on the trail, off the trail, in the park...learn to figure out where you are and how to get to where you need to be by busting out that compass.

[sambieni]

I am great at trails. Great at maps, etc. But all that is to say, this past spring I took compass training w/ REI. I hope I never need to use it.

I don't want to sound sanctimonious either, but the REI course is only giving you the basics for how to begin to use the compass and navigate. You should "hope" you never need to use it in an emergency, but without using it, you don't/won't really know how to use it when it counts. You make your own skill sets only with real-world practice and making it second nature. Every opportunity you get...on the trail, off the trail, in the park...learn to figure out where you are and how to get to where you need to be by busting out that compass.

Agreed. I was not super impressed by the course. It barely scratched the surface and the instructor often fell back on the line of "check against your GPS for confirmation."
I agree, real world is what matters. Will study up online a bit before my next trip and then test it out on a few trips. Its a basic framework I have at moment; not perfect, but a start.
(And you presume there are lots of parks here in LA to practice on )

[mrphil]

Sure, you can go around the block and just turn angles for practice. Simple addition in closing any figure, be it a circle, square, random blob, etc will always close upon itself with a total sum of all angles at 360 degrees. That can be your living room, backyard, national park...the planet. The more you follow any course by following a heading only, the easier it becomes and more accurate you get. Navigationally, while you're researching online, do yourself a favor and become familiar with UTM coordinates and the various mapping tools available. Those are the blue grid coordinates on the edges of every decent modern map made. Give me a good set of UTM coordinates for your location and I can pin you down to within a meter or two anywhere on the face of the earth within a couple minutes using only a map and a corner tool.

[maverick]

I don't want to sound sanctimonious either, but the REI course is only giving you the basics for how to begin to use the compass and navigate.

Go to something similar to this: http://baoc.org/wiki/Welcome

[oldranger]

Maverick,

How about separating this mess into 3 separate threads, one on the original topic, one on the value of pretrial meetings, and one on how to learn map reading and gps use.

[mrphil]

Original post/purpose:

The purpose of this thread, is for everyone with experience in these extreme conditions, is to chime in with a cautionary note, specify things to keep in mind and prepare for.

Their are many folks who are itching to get out (cabin fever) or may be coming from another state, with reserved dates, for June or July, and will find themselves in extremely dangerous conditions, from snow covered trail, passes with icy conditions, dangerous crossings over snow bridges, cornices at the top of passes, and possible the most dangerous, swollen, ragging creeks and rivers.

Who are these people? How do they prepare? What skills will they need to master in order to stay out of trouble?

I would think that any group of people would need to be able to identify the strengths and weaknesses of their fellow party members in advance, as well as at least have some fairly basic navigational skills. How much can you talk about conditions with backpackers thrown into the mix without considering the backpackers themselves? No people involved and none of it matters at all.

At least two people that are participating in this discussion thread have openly admitted to having no compass skills. I think most here understand that to be extremely problematic in the best of conditions, much less when attempting winter travel.

[oldranger]

Original post/purpose:

The purpose of this thread, is for everyone with experience in these extreme conditions, is to chime in with a cautionary note, specify things to keep in mind and prepare for.

Their are many folks who are itching to get out (cabin fever) or may be coming from another state, with reserved dates, for June or July, and will find themselves in extremely dangerous conditions, from snow covered trail, passes with icy conditions, dangerous crossings over snow bridges, cornices at the top of passes, and possible the most dangerous, swollen, ragging creeks and rivers.

Who are these people? How do they prepare? What skills will they need to master in order to stay out of trouble?

I would think that any group of people would need to be able to identify the strengths and weaknesses of their fellow party members in advance, as well as at least have some fairly basic navigational skills. How much can you talk about conditions with backpackers thrown into the mix without considering the backpackers themselves? No people involved and none of it matters at all.

At least two people that are participating in this discussion thread have openly admitted to having no compass skills. I think most here understand that to be extremely problematic in the best of conditions, much less when attempting winter travel.

In 60 years of backpacking (yeah I'm that old) I have never needed to use a compass. Close once but then the fog cleared because I hung tight for a while at a point where I could drop into any of 3 drainages and only one was where I wanted to go. That said I'm pretty savvy with a compass. But the real skill needed in my opinion is the ability to read a topo map and the terrain. The High Sierra has pretty dramatic topography that for me means that a compass, though carried, is never used for navigation. GPS is just extra weight and I'm not smart enough to use a smart phone.

[Hobbes]

I have never needed to use a compass. The real skill needed in my opinion is the ability to read a topo map and the terrain.

How about this for the Bay area peeps?


I'm actually pretty good with a compass as well. In fact, just used mine to dial in our new digital antenna to precisely 351 degrees N (where all the TV/radio transmitters are located on top of Mt Wilson in SoCal). That being said, I never have taken one into the Sierra, nor have I ever needed one. With only one ridge running north-south (ok, two if you count the Kaweahs below the Kings-Kern divide), and all rivers running west (again, except for the Kern ... and ok the Truckee if you want to get picky), orientation cannot be any easier.

However, just like OR mentioned, I always, always take paper maps. There is simply no substitute - GPS doesn't count - to determine where you are, survey a specific section, and/or gain perspective on route alternatives.

Now, where you'd want GPS, compass & maps is if a bush pilot dropped you off in the middle of Denali NP. And, oh, probably a 44 magnum as well.