Thru-hiker Envy

[Hobbes]

They google search what gear they need to buy and buy it (Hobbes top 10 list). Most I have talked to, never tested their gear on a pre-trip and have no other experience with other types of gear. They know nothing besides what someone else told them.

Crowd sourcing can be an effective way of determining high value-to-cost propositions. This book describes the phenomenon in more detail:
https://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Crowds-Ja ... 0385721706

For many, the top 10 list is a refinement of what successful thru-hikers have found to work. I hadn't even considered the Exos 58 until I started seeing it everywhere. I ran into this PCT hiker last year @ TM, and bought him lunch in HB as he was cycling through on his way south to Mexico. (He's section cycling from Alaska to Patagonia.) He's now doing the CDT:

http://bikehikesafari.com/


He had some very interesting comments/observations about gear; or as he referred to them as "UL freaks". LOL. Anyway, the point being that if you're starting from scratch (or just updating gear), discovering not what just everyone else has, but what "successful" thru-hikers actually used (and the reasons why particular items worked), seems to be a reasonable strategy.

I'm sure there are other contributing factors such as fashion, herd mentality, fads, perceptions of fitting in, etc, but those personalities tend to get weeded out pretty fast. The glamour (whatever may have existed) about the trail is usually brutally squashed within weeks of starting.

I will say I am soured by my JMT experience and will try to stay away from that trail. Makes me appreciate the wilderness areas between Yosemite and SEKI and west of the JMT even more.

The number #1 reason for our early season JMT section hike was to "take back the trail":

http://highsierratopix.com/community/vi ... =1&t=14472

There's no reason to give up a great location just because everyone else has figured it out. Rather, you just need to go when crowds aren't there. Early season requires additional skills that many/most thru-hikers don't (yet) possess. Or, as so many who either quit or skipped the Sierra were fond of saying "I didn't sign up for thru-mountaineering"

That being said, there are some out there early season who perhaps shouldn't be. When we were taking a break on top of Kearsarge on our way out, a group of 20-something betas arrived from OV after re-supplying in town. One of them had an Exos, and like all Osprey backpacks, it had a plastic coated cable on one side to hang cams & carabiners. However, in his case he had his ice-axe head hanging through the loop, so that the pick was facing his groin and the shaft was down by his thigh.

The best image to conjure would be sort of like a gunslinger with his pistol hanging low for quick access. Seeing that and feeling charitable, I calmly/quietly (not wishing to call attention or embarrass) suggested to his friend that he might wish to advise his buddy about re-positioning his axe. That is, to the actual ice-axe loop so that the pick was upside down and facing inward (at the back of the pack as far away from his body as possible), with the shaft pointing up. His response "the pack has two ice-axe loops - that one is for quick access".

I sh!t you not. I didn't even know how to respond - I was tempted to go into full Marksor mode. Quick access! "Son, if that axe ain't already in your hand when you need it, it's already too late". LOL. This numbskull had a sharp, dangerous weapon pointed inches from his abdomen. It wouldn't even require a fall, just kicking a root/rock and a slight stumble would have done the trick. But, like the old saying goes "you can't fix stupid". I guess they got through ok, or for all I know, took one look at Glen and headed back out, promising to do the Sierra later in the year.

[longri]

He had some very interesting comments/observations about gear; or as he referred to them as "UL freaks". LOL. Anyway, the point being that if you're starting from scratch (or just updating gear), discovering not what just everyone else has, but what "successful" thru-hikers actually used (and the reasons why particular items worked), seems to be a reasonable strategy.

I used to think the UL guys were kind of nuts.

Then I did a long walk in another country where camping wasn't allowed and you had to use the huts. So I had a day pack that weighed maybe 10lbs. And while I missed camping, walking unencumbered day after day really opened my eyes. I thought -- can I do this in the Sierra? And of course the answer is yes, it's possible. The "freaks" already figured out how to do it.

I walked the JMT a couple of years ago like that, with a pack that averaged a little over 10lbs. Even though it was a very rainy trip it was a great experience.

But blindly following their lead, buying their gear -- sans experience -- is risky.

That year there was a big monsoon and it was hilarious to see so many people shell shocked over the weather, swearing they were going to buy new rain gear and better tents. One old guy told me that rain like that hadn't happened in the Sierra in the last 30 years (he was wrong of course). Another young man with a homemade Henry Shires style tarp asked me if I thought that the Rae Lakes ranger would let him sleep in the ranger cabin if he got cold that night.

[Hobbes]

I thought -- can I do this in the Sierra? And of course the answer is yes, it's possible. The "freaks" already figured out how to do it.
I walked the JMT a couple of years ago like that, with a pack that averaged a little over 10lbs.

I sewed up a new Dyneema 140 pack a few months ago that has neither a sternum strap nor hip-belt. It's part of my (super) SUL kit that has a baseweight of 6lbs. With food, DeLorme, Tenkara, phone/camera, the total weight for a 3 night excursion is 11.5lbs. I'm planning on using this kit to attend the meet-up in a few weeks.

But yeah, you definitely gotta know what you're doing. In my case, the only rain protection is a tarp & and emergency poncho - I'm leaving both my regular poncho and/or rain jacket behind. Likewise on clothing, just a down vest and long-sleeve shirt. Quilt, poly-cru ground cover & mini-neo round out the basics.

Might even go no cook and plan on hitting Vogelsang on my way out. As you say, there is nothing like hiking with a day pack. So effortless, but a little bit risky. You really don't have that margin as the hike either gets longer or the re-supply points diminish. Then, you gotta carry everything on your back like a pack mule.

[Clown Shoes]

And I tried the Hoka One Ones. They were crazy bouncy funky things that I couldn't wait to get off of my feet. :-)

Hah, You dont like my Shoes !!!!! LOL Thats the point, we all have our preferences. I was down in Le Conte Canyon last weekend and
There were a number of hikers coming through, but it didnt spoil my experience. But thats the beauty of it,just pick yourself a off trail route
or my choice is to come out normally Aug-Sept-Oct etc.
I loaned my shelter out last year, and used an old Gatewood Cape on a weekend trip and got caught in a Thunder storm. I was bone dry, but I
thought it was a little small. I was packing up the next morning and a guy who was camped near me asked me how I did in the storm and I mentioned I would have liked more room , and he couldnt wait too jump all over it with sarcastic remarks about, "oh but i bet its light", and a few others. It really made me see how many of you are hung-up and are out to judge others, here is this guy with a 5-6 lb tent blasting me for being under a tarp. The Hokas are ugly, but have helped my knees and they are killer on down hills, btw
Its so funny how this has partly turned into a gear discussion.

The number #1 reason for our early season JMT section hike was to "take back the trail":

I know you're a very experienced guy, but sorry, its not yours to take back. Some of us are very fortunate to have been able to start early in life, getting into the back country. Others who start later and look dumb because they attached their Ice Axe wrong, could use a little help and understanding from the initiated.

[sheperd80]

Fwiw that reinforced bungee on osprey packs is part of the trekking pole stow-on-the-go system. The big loop above it is for ice axes.



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[longri]

As you say, there is nothing like hiking with a day pack. So effortless, but a little bit risky.

Not if you know what you're doing. That was kind of the point -- blindly copying someone else's strategy is what is risky.

But that's a side effect of the popularity of these long trails (and off trail routes), it's not an intrinsic feature the activity itself.

[Wandering Daisy]

Thru-hiking is a specific style of hiking and their equipment is targeted for that. Thru-hikers, although solo, are essentially in a larger unorganized group. Safety margins can be squeezed because there usually are others coming along within a few hours, if you get into trouble. And due to their long mileage days, they can usually camp at lower elevations (milder climate). In an off-trail situation, where you may be out for 10+ days at a time, and not see anyone for several days, and camping at higher altitudes, you have to build in more safety margin. There are a lot of UL ideas we can borrow from the thru-hikers. The economics, however, may be a problem; if you are on the trail for 4 months straight, an $800 cuben fiber tent may be justified, whereas, the average weekend hiker may not be able to do that.

The Sierra is a great place to use thru-hiking equipment, because weather is usually quite agreeable, and if you do get rain, you are almost assured that you will be able to dry out soon. On the other hand, if I were going to the Canadian Rockies, British highlands or even the northern US Rockies, that may not work, because you can get week long bad weather spells that do not allow you to dry out. I have experienced some of my most intense weather in the Sierra, but never had a problem recovering with sunshine soon appearing. I have also experienced 28 days straight of snow and sleet in the Rockies. Nothing intense, but never ending.

One thing I have trouble with is their minimal clothing. They plan on staying warm by hiking all daylight hours, and then quickly camp and jump into sleeping bags. That is not my style, so I have to take another layer. Their food amount often is deprived and the calories made up in town. If you are out for 12 days straight, that may not work. I guess I fall somewhere between the UL thru-hikers and the usually over burdened JMT hikers.

[maverick]

This thread was not started to discuss gear differences, let's please get back on topic, if you care to discuss gear issues please start a seperate thread. Thanks.

[schmalz]

Mav, you started this thread out as an open ended question that started with "is it that they can cover so many miles a day?"

How is gear not an integral part of that question/answer?

[Hobbes]

Sh!t Brian, how much weight have you lost?



Exos 58, check
Z lite, check

To accede to Mav's wish, given the right mood & circumstances, I could be persuaded to perhaps reconsider my previous declaration and admit that - at least in your particular case - I may possibly be a smidge envious. After all, isn't it a truth universally acknowledged that a person in possession of desire is in want of sufficient uninterrupted time so as to be able to attempt to achieve a goal & objective worthy of their effort?

In other words, what's your planned calendar for Washington?