High Sierra Topix

congrats!

rlown wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 6:31 pm Please explain "the fringe." We aren't in Hungary. And please explain why the "extreme left" is burning/looting cities if you have time..
It isn't a good trend, and we need police. If they don't listen to a peace officers commands, that is a problem, as well as throwing bricks.

It is my view that the extreme left--those elements of the protests that turn violent or destroy property--are engaging in counterproductive behavior toward their own cause. They feed the politics of resentment too, and contribute to that vicious spiral of backlash to backlash that can, if taken too far, polarize a nation, making it impossible to seek common ground. It is in those conditions of chaos and gridlock that "strong man" rulers tend to emerge, as in the four examples I cited.

That said, the vast majority of protesters do not commit acts of violence or destroy property. Their activity has been part of the American tradition since the days of John Hancock. The violence of the extreme left has in some cases badly undermined the message of peaceful protesters.

Yes, there is indeed an important role for police in helping to prevent the fringe from hijacking peaceful protests into violent and destructive acts. For the police to be most effective, they need to be perceived by all sides as fair--neutral enforcers of the laws. In a highly polarized society this becomes harder and harder to do. The more divided our nation becomes, the more impossible will be the task of our police.

ok, back to fires..

People make a choice to live in a certain place and don't protect their house. Towns, kind of the same way. I'd like to feel sorry, but when I see the properties burned, didn't look like they cleared ladder fuel. And the cars.. How many cars do you need on your property? I feel worse for the animals.

Given the PM's I get from @maverick , I'm the MVP of insulting total strangers

Depends on what MVP stands for in your case.

Please, political dialogue is fine as long it pertains to the fires, but some of this is drifting off subject, would like to keep the thread open and useful. Thanks

maverick wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 8:58 pm ... would like to keep the thread open and useful. Thanks

Impossible, especially when Kpeter's cogent thoughts on the subject and call for respect and unity get diverted to looting.

Looting is not a sign of political leaning. Looters are looters, not left or right. They show up and loot after any disaster, not just riots. Sorry for more off topic stuff but I couldn't let that one go.

kpeter wrote: ↑Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:37 pm But one thing progressives need to do is to treat people on the right with respect. We need to make an effort to understand their views without demonizing or patronizing them. Why? Because splitting people apart and hardening ideological divisions is a conscious part of the strategy of the far right--and especially of those Russian trolls that were just referenced. Every time we respond to anger coming from the far right with our own "equal and opposite" anger, we are actually NOT engaging in an equal contest.

I don't agree. It is a cult, based on spreading lies and misinformation. That's fine, whatever—but it is a cult that's dedicated to destroying our environment, and right now it is succeeding. (Plus, it is keeping me out of the Sierra! )

There's no need to treat them with respect, or to try to see their logic. They don't believe in science. They don't have any logic. They follow their leader, and like most political cults publicly proclaiming illogical, contradictory statements is a key signaling behavior.

Here's what President Trump said today:

“It’ll start getting cooler,” he insisted. “You just watch.”

“I wish science agreed with you,” Mr. Crowfoot replied.

“Well, I don’t think science knows, actually,” Mr. Trump retorted, maintaining a tense grin.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/14/us/p ... fires.html

Here's his quote from Feb. 27:

We have done an incredible job. We’re going to continue. It’s going to disappear. One day — it’s like a miracle — it will disappear. And from our shores, we — you know, it could get worse before it gets better. It could maybe go away. We’ll see what happens. Nobody really knows. The fact is, the greatest experts — I’ve spoken to them all. Nobody really knows.

Okay.. Who is "they."

You seem to have an opinion, but it is only that.

NYT isn't a good source for anything but bird cage liner.

Sorry, not a cult member. You make choices and right now it is pretty obvious.

Shut this thread down.
It has degenerated into name-calling and chasing political conspiracy theories.