R04 TR: Snowfall, Blue Skies, and Big Fish- Woodchuck Country to Blackcap Basin 10/10 - 10/19 2021

[Wandering Daisy]

I quit doing late season backpacks simply because I do not like all the darkness. Too much tent time. Now that we have a trailer, we prefer to do trailer trips and day-hikes, where we can go into the trailer, with lights and heat, when it gets dark. I feel I have paid my dues with younger days of a LOT of snow and winter trips, like a 3- week ski mountaineering trip in the Wind Rivers in December, temperatures varying from -35 to 0 degrees. Winter climb of Longs Peak in Colorado. Two weeks in the Tetons mid-winter. I have just had my fill of it all. Lots more darkness too because it is farther north. Southern Sierra is not as bad.

I have always done winter trips with a large group. In that case there is safety in numbers. I would not do a late season trip by myself. On shoulder season day-hikes I often just throw in my sleeping bag. Shoulder season can actually be worse than mid-winter because you have to deal with rain and wet snow. Mid-winter cold dry snow is not as difficult to deal with. The other problem with shoulder season is what to take. In winter there is no question - full on winter gear.

I do not recall the weather forecast for your trip, Harlen, was all that bad. And you seemed to be prepared. And you had what is needed for a "three dog night".

[Harlen]

Wandering Daisy writes:

On shoulder season day-hikes I often just throw in my sleeping bag.

Smart, but it sure fills up a daypack. What about my question about bivvy sacs vs tent flys Nancy? When I wrote:

...I realized then that I should always take a lot more warm gear-- including my tinder and matches, and perhaps a bivvy sack on my ski tours away from camp. Wandering Daisy, you have a bivvy sack, which do you recommend, or can I get away with using my tent fly for wrapping up in if ever I am stuck out? It would be nice to have the fly double as an emergency bivvy. We used to always have those heat-reflective sheets, which were very light, but for a night out?

View east from "The Hump" to Tablelands.
This is that weather that blew in while I was day touring away from my camp on The Hump the time I was nearly separated from my camp for the night. There was pretty much zero vis. within those blowing clouds. This is what made me very much aware of the danger of skiing away from camp without gear enough for a bivouac. The best set-up for a forced overnight makes for a heavy day pack, which cuts into your skiing pleasure, and speed. Many have noted that "there is safety in speed," so the choice isn't so clear re. what to take.

[Wandering Daisy]

For me, a bivy sack alone with clothing is not sufficient for a snowstorm or below freezing temperatures. I have used a bivy on climbs in the summer and even then, I got quite cold; survived but did not sleep. But I tend to easily get very cold. Others may have different experiences.

I have an old Outdoor Research Basic Bivy that weighs 1#4oz. I actually have taken it on some sort trips with our dog, just to protect my sleeping bag. I have spent a few nights in it when it froze hard and the bivy plus sleeping bag kept me quite warm. In really windy conditions a bivy is actually better than a tent, unless the tent is a hard core mountaineering tent.

I think you can get a bivy nowadays for about 12 oz. that you could use with a sleeping bag. As for the UL tents, there are some at about 1.5 pounds, but they are not likely to withstand a big wind or heavy snow load.

I do not take a day-pack and just use my regular pack so carrying a sleeping bag is not a big problem since I have plenty of volume available. I really do not see it as a big problem. I think you just have to bit the bullet in winter and carry the weight on day-hikes.

In a snowstorm, once you get covered in snow, the snow itself acts as insulation. Problem then is the condensation. Personally, I would not do a lot of day-hiking in very late season with threat of snow. But I can get weather reports on my In-Reach (not the most detailed forecast). Or I can message someone at home and have them look up more detailed weather information. This bit of technology allows more assurance regarding incoming storms.

Also, the more people the warmer if caught out. You can huddle together. In the early 1970's I actually spent a night out in the winter, with sleeping bag only with three other people. We did not bring a tent or bivy because we planned on sleeping in the hut for a winter climb of Longs Peak. Well, storm came in, whiteout, we could not find the hut, so we dug a shallow snow cave, and huddled. Took turns as to who was on the bottom and who on top. In the morning the storm cleared and we looked right at the hut- we were within 100 feet and could not see it in the storm. We did the climb that day and spent that night in the hut- way more comfortable. Skied out next day.

[Gogd]

Nice TR, pretty pics, Harlen. Other TRs lead me to believe the shoulder season snow is preferable to summer mosquito mobs. Just curious, what lures are you using on these lakes?
Ed

[Harlen]

Thanks Gogd, With a name like yours, I imagined that you might be omniscient. You could just be testing me, so I'll try to be truthful. We were mostly using silver or gold Panther Martins, and various sizes and color combinations of Kastmasters. We had some success with "Super-dupers" too. Other lures were lost before I learned their names--honest.

[Gogd]

Thanks for the beta, Harlan.

The avatar name? Not so much omniscient as much as an appreciative nod to a great band, Good Ol Grateful Dead, albeit many a deadhead would draw similes between the two.

If my words did glow with the gold of sunshine
And my tunes were played on the harp unstrung,
Would you hear my voice come thru the music,
Would you hold it near as it were your own?

- Grateful Dead - Album: American Beauty - Song: Ripple

Well maybe the deadheads are on to something...

Ed

[Harlen]

Gogd writes:

The avatar name? Not so much omniscient as much as an appreciative nod to a great band, Good Ol Grateful Dead, albeit many a deadhead would draw similes between the two.

That's great, and so, I won't be Judged.

Giantbrookie- fisherman extraordinaire who also resides here, has put us on to one of his favorite lures, but I haven't managed to get them yet, they are called Z-Rays. There is even a post here dedicated to "What's in your tackle box?"... or "Show us your tackle box," or something like that. I'll try to find it, as it is a great post, with photos of people's fishing kits. Here it is: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4124#p24620

This great kit of oldranger highlights the Z-Rays:viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4124&start=10#p28600

I hope this is acceptable to link these Fishing Hole posts here; the Fishing Hole forum has some limits on who can use it. I recommend you check out that forum itself Gogd. rlown, do your docenting thing and reprimand me if I've erred, and I will remove these links.

FYI Gogd, here is that information of the Fishing Hole forum of HST:

This forum is crawled by search engines and the search feature of this site, but can only be accessed by registered HST members. Register here.
Subforum: Sensitive Reports Section

[Gogd]

Giantbrookie- fisherman extraordinaire who also resides here, has put us on to one of his favorite lures, but I haven't managed to get them yet, they are called Z-Rays. There is even a post here dedicated to "What's in your tackle box?"... or "Show us your tackle box," or something like that. I'll try to find it, as it is a great post, with photos of people's fishing kits. Here it is: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4124#p24620

This great kit of oldranger highlights the Z-Rays:viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4124&start=10#p28600

Thanks for the links. I'd already was working my way through all of the posts on the Show us your tackle box topic when I posed my question to you. Old Ranger's box seemed to answer my querry. I found many of the other tackle collections to be overwhelming, as I fish to eat, versus live to fish. The Fishing Hole forum space has to be the largest angler centric forum space I've seen outside of websites dedicated solely to fishing.

Ed

[rlown]

Yes.. OR has a great collection. Too bad he lost them twice on trips and I found them and returned them..

I have 100 Z-rays, 1/3 retrofitted with single barbless hook dressed. Fish get a chance.

[Gogd]

Seems like you stocked up after hearing Wittmann Lures was closing shop. Congrats! I tried finding Z-rays, but the size and coloration I am hankering are hard to locate, short of buying an entire tackle collection that includes just a few Z-rays. I decided I'll just make own out of 2-part epoxy. While I am technically a fisherman (I eat almost everything I catch), I have always rigged with single hooks sans barbs in the spirit of angling ethics, and the chance I may hook a lunker that is better released to breed.

Ed