Re: Politics, Backpacking, Sierra
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:43 pm
maybe off topic but I'd really like to see 168 completed. No worse then what they did in Glacier.
Russ,
Not only no but F--- NO!
Mike
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Politics, Backpacking, Sierra
https://www.highsierratopix.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=8991
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Re: Politics, Backpacking, Sierra
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:40 pm
Re: Politics, Backpacking, Sierra
Posted: Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:46 pm
think of the economic benefits. to the area.
capitalism is a cancer or it doesn't work!
That would employ like 5 geologists and major road crews which seems to be the favor right now in CA.
capitalism is a cancer or it doesn't work!
That would employ like 5 geologists and major road crews which seems to be the favor right now in CA.
Re: Politics, Backpacking, Sierra
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:03 am
+1oldranger wrote:Russ,
Not only no but F--- NO!
Mike
Original plan to complete 168 included reservoirs flooding out Blayney and Evolution Valleys, just to name two areas worth protecting, IMO.
And what I find ironic about Mike's earlier point (if this is true), it's my understanding that Reagan was the Gov. to stop 168 expansion in it's tracks before it could even reach Kaiser Pass. That's what I've read, anyway. I'm too young to remember.
Re: Politics, Backpacking, Sierra
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:30 pm
if i could find the original plan, that would be helpful. Google search seems to just show what it is today.
I still see nothing wrong with completing that road, sans the reservoirs. no different than 120 or others in the NPS system. And it'll be closed most of the year anyway. A wtf doesn't answer why.
Eric, glad you added to your comment cuz i was going right there. One needs more info to make the actual determination.
Russ
I still see nothing wrong with completing that road, sans the reservoirs. no different than 120 or others in the NPS system. And it'll be closed most of the year anyway. A wtf doesn't answer why.
Eric, glad you added to your comment cuz i was going right there. One needs more info to make the actual determination.
Russ
Re: Politics, Backpacking, Sierra
Posted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 3:16 pm
Even without reservoirs, I prefer to hike to those two beautiful locations. Not drive to them. Among other popular backcountry routes, methinks it sure would make the North Lake - South Lake loop a 'different' experience. No thanks.
Re: Politics, Backpacking, Sierra
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:36 am
Eeeeek. Completing 168 would have been -- and would still be -- an absolute disaster for the wilderness character of that entire region. Reagan did stop it -- not because he cared about the wilderness (though some say he actually did) but because it would have cost too much and for very little return.
Look at the areas that do have trans Sierra highways and there's not a huge amount of economic development as a result, once you get above about 4,000 feet and especially on the east side. Look at current development above Twain Harte (108) or Arnold (4). Shaver has a pretty good road to it, but try finding a place to eat after October 1. Lee Vining's stayed about the same size since forever. Minden etc. don't benefit a whole lot from even an all year highway. From Mono Lake south, there's no water to support development, so effects are limited right there.
A side note: You can still see the large blazes SCE chopped onto trees (in the 30s??) at Evolution Meadow and Colby to show the rough placement of dams.
g.
Look at the areas that do have trans Sierra highways and there's not a huge amount of economic development as a result, once you get above about 4,000 feet and especially on the east side. Look at current development above Twain Harte (108) or Arnold (4). Shaver has a pretty good road to it, but try finding a place to eat after October 1. Lee Vining's stayed about the same size since forever. Minden etc. don't benefit a whole lot from even an all year highway. From Mono Lake south, there's no water to support development, so effects are limited right there.
A side note: You can still see the large blazes SCE chopped onto trees (in the 30s??) at Evolution Meadow and Colby to show the rough placement of dams.
g.
Re: Politics, Backpacking, Sierra
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:44 am
yeah.. never said it would be an all year highway. it'd have the same character as 120, which obviously must have some economic benefit given the push to open it every year.
Re: Politics, Backpacking, Sierra
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:35 pm
Ha! The legendary Gene Rose weighs in with a quick reply to me:
I was there...more or less. Yes, SCE wanted dams in Evolution and over on their West side with Granite Creek and other spots above Clover Meadow.
In the post WWII road-building craze several Sierra road projects were advanced. There was a big fight in Kings Canyon because the Sierra Club saw an extension of 180 to Cedar Grove and Zumwalt Meadow as a staged trans-Sierra route to Alpendale, west of Bishop. If you go west out of Bishop, the highway is even designated as 168.
There was also talk of a Theodore Solomon route that would run in the front country of the west slope of the Sierra.
The North Fork to Mammoth, via Minaret Summit or Mammoth Pass, was the contentious one. It was even staked around 1959, but Ike Livermore, Governor Reagan's resource secretary and Whitney packer, recommended against it...and Reagan took his advice. Reagan later claimed it was his proudest moment as governor. Yes, cost was a concern but the political will was big issue. As I recall even the folks around Mammoth were opposed to it because they didn't have the infrastructure to support the anticipated visitation.
At one time, the folks at Mammoth, Bob Schott, asked me to do a book on it, but realizing the limited market I could not find a publisher. My files on this project are in Special Collections at the CSUF Madden Library.
Re: Politics, Backpacking, Sierra
Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:09 pm
Here is an old map showing apparently hand-drawn reservoirs in Blaney Meadows, Lake Florence, and Vermilion Valley.