High Sierra Topix

Does LLV have a "busier" season than others that's good to avoid just like anywhere else in the Sierra? I'm assuming it's not to the point of being a year-round disneyland experience like Yosemite is starting to become.

Lenier wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:55 am Does LLV have a "busier" season than others that's good to avoid just like anywhere else in the Sierra? I'm assuming it's not to the point of being a year-round disneyland experience like Yosemite is starting to become.

I don't even think it is a place to avoid, per se. But it does get pretty busy during peak of summer. (especially the areas that make sense for dayhikers).

It isn't THAT bad IMO, and if you are backpacking, my experience has been that it is relatively easy to find a campsite with solitude as long as you get off the main trail and head to opposite side of lakes. That said, I have only ever gone there fairly early in the season.

rayfound wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:03 am

Lenier wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:55 am Does LLV have a "busier" season than others that's good to avoid just like anywhere else in the Sierra? I'm assuming it's not to the point of being a year-round disneyland experience like Yosemite is starting to become.

I don't even think it is a place to avoid, per se. But it does get pretty busy during peak of summer. (especially the areas that make sense for dayhikers).

It isn't THAT bad IMO, and if you are backpacking, my experience has been that it is relatively easy to find a campsite with solitude as long as you get off the main trail and head to opposite side of lakes. That said, I have only ever gone there fairly early in the season.

I think its too crowded at LLV most of the time. I would only go during the weekdays during June, July, and August. After Labor day it does quiet down a bit, so a weekend trip is possible. It's the same at South Lake.

Texan

Lenier wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:55 am Does LLV have a "busier" season than others that's good to avoid just like anywhere else in the Sierra? I'm assuming it's not to the point of being a year-round disneyland experience like Yosemite is starting to become.

We day-hiked into Little Lakes Valley on Sunday, October 8 of this year during our eastside fall color trip (not much color in the valley itself, but lots of aspen on the road up Rock Creek). It was crowded. Many, many dayhikers and a surprising (to me) number of backpackers heading in. The main parking lot was full and we had to park about 1/2 mile back down the road.

-Phil

wildhiker wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 12:22 am

Lenier wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:55 am Does LLV have a "busier" season than others that's good to avoid just like anywhere else in the Sierra? I'm assuming it's not to the point of being a year-round disneyland experience like Yosemite is starting to become.

We day-hiked into Little Lakes Valley on Sunday, October 8 of this year during our eastside fall color trip (not much color in the valley itself, but lots of aspen on the road up Rock Creek). It was crowded. Many, many dayhikers and a surprising (to me) number of backpackers heading in. The main parking lot was full and we had to park about 1/2 mile back down the road.

-Phil

Thanks for the info. I can't believe it was that crowded there in Oct. I was going there during mid-August this year to Chickenfoot Lake for a day hike fishing trip but we couldn't find a place to park at all, only at the day parking by Rock Creek lake, so I told the wife forgot it, let's go to South Lake and it was the same. So I had the wife drop me off and she came back late afternoon to pick me up. I went to Green Lake up the pipeline and she didn't want to do it. Thanks again for this info, I haven't tried a late fall trip to LLV in years and thought it wouldn't be crowded, but I guess I was wrong.

Texan

Recall that the original thread here asked for LLV-like but campfire friendly which means Bishop Creek, LLV, etc. are not part of the original request, but the topic of crowding is worth addressing given that all locations accessible by short trailed hikes will tend to be crowded.

For LLV, Bishop Creek Lakes and similar destinations I have in fact found them very crowded through an "extended" season, but even in LLV one can get a secluded camping spot, commonly as easily as hiking to the opposite side of a lake from the trail. I took Judy to LLV on her first High Sierra backpack not long after we met (you could call it a "backpacking date") in late September 1986 and we camped at an unnamed (on maps) string of lakes E of Long Lake (reachable by use trail but not official trail). We had the lakes to ourselves, which would not have been the case in the "usual" places in the basin, which still had a lot of visitors even though it was unusually cold (subfreezing in middle of afternoon). In 1988 we returned to LLV and camped at Long Lake itself but we camped on the opposite shore and had no one around our tent, while we could see hikers walking along the trail on the opposite side of the lake. One can do the same thing at Bishop Creek destinations, but there you also have these "side trails" that are far less used than the trunk ones. I backpacked with Dawn to Green Lake (S Fork Bishop Creek) in June 2022, stayed there for two nights and we saw virtually no one---no one else camped there, and we had one or two hikers pass through in three days. The same game plan can be used in an otherwise crowded area such as hikes out of Virginia Lakes which is another one of those high trailheads that gets you to nice backcountry in a very short distance.

For the areas that do in fact satisfy the original post criteria--reachable by short hike, campfire friendly, and presumably with fish (ie cook fish over open flame)--the same strategies apply to getting some space for you and your kids. In other words, if you're in the Dinkey Lakes or Kaiser Wilderness, or comparable areas, a little look around will reveal that a small bit of "extra" hiking once you reach your destination will allow you to get a campsite and a place to relax away from the crowds. Not all of the destinations (say lakes, for example) offer a lot of camping options, however. Some may have steep sides with limited camping spots that might fill up, whereas others will have many camping possibilities, including the "hidden" sites (usually opposite the trail, or on higher ground---higher ground also tends to be neglected).

Finally there is the off trail card that can be played if you can navigate well off trail. Some very short off trail hikes in otherwise crowded areas can get you to a place where you won't see anyone all day. The first backpacking trip I took my kids on (late July 2008), when the older one Lee was 6 and the younger one Dawn was 3 (Judy carried Dawn in) was to an off trail lake just outside of Dinkey Lakes Wilderness. The hike is about 1.25 mi and 900' of gain off trail from an easily-reachable dirt road spur (passenger car drivable in 2008, but degraded to 4WD later---this spur only adds about a mile of hiking from main graded dirt road in area). We camped, caught decent brookies running to 13" (Lee caught his first fish there, too), and grilled them over our campfire coals at a wonderfully cozy campsite on high ground above the lake (high ground to avoid mosquitoes). The kids loved everything about the place. We saw nobody there for the two days we were there. This was even true when we were there on 4th of July weekend the next year (ie no other people).

Returning to the "avoid crowds by camping on opposite side of lake" strategy, the first of many father-daughter backpack trips I've done with Dawn in 2017 was to a super popular destination in Desolation Wilderness (does not meet thread criteria of campfire friendly; no fires allowed), where we camped on the shore opposite the trail and had the entire shoreline to ourself--the trailed side of the lake was like a big walk-in campground in comparison.

phonewentwest wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 1:00 pm 5 & 7
SOCAL. But I work as a teacher, so with summer off we can travel.

My kids' first trips were in Yosemite to May Lake. Its a 1 1/4 miles with good lake/mountain payoff after a slight climb. Not hard or far, but if kids aren't happy its a quick shot back to the car. Another easy idea is out and back in Yosemite along Lyell Canyon. Its 4 miles minimum but all flat and gorgeous views. Likewise, consider Pollydomes via Murphy Lakes.

Why not just do both- campfire at trailhead campground where you can have more comfort/chairs/picnic table, etc. the night before. Then an overnight or 2-night backpack, great if you can still have fires, but not a must. Ask your kids what they want to see and do. Some like bugs, some like splashing in water, others like fishing, some have fun with binoculars. As for activities around water, be sure the stream or lake is safe. Avoid creeks that are roaring, or lakes with deep drop-offs by camp. As for crowds, I doubt kids would care. If there were other kids close by to play with, all the merrier.

If they are interested, include them in the planning, choosing food, cooking, tent setting up.