Inyo NF Closure 8/31 - 9/17

[GGC23]

I'm generally in support of this closure, but my biggest concern is that it's completly unenforceable. If they keep doing these blanket, mass closures, people are just going to start ignoring them unless it's smokey enough to keep people away. And right now, it's not. I'm in Bishop, and the mountains are crystal clear. In an cruel twist of fate, the same winds that are driving the Caldor Fire into South Lake are giving the Owens Valley and Inyo NF some of the best air we've seen since early August. I'm a firm believer in the fact that you don't pass rules unless you have a realistic possibility of enforcing them because otherwise, you do nothing but highlight how weak / nonexistent your enforcement system actually is. You'll never catch every scofflaw; we still have speed limits even though not everyone who speeds gets a ticket. But completely closing millions of acres of national forest when I can count the number of deputized backcountry rangers on one hand seems like a recipe for disaster.

[ericmcornelius]

As a Mammoth resident, I think I'm probably impacted more significantly than most here.

You could argue that's the cost of the privilege of living in a beautiful place, but I literally cannot step foot off pavement within a 25 minute drive from here according to the closure - even our municipal parks are subject to the closure.

This is ironic, given the town and county supervisors were petitioning to no avail to get better enforcement of illegal dispersed camping and a ban on fires in developed sites and got significant pushback from the USFS.

To jump from there to full closure even to day uses which have no historically borne out risk is - to my mind - absurd.

As an aside - there was a FOIA request finally fulfilled by the USDA for the Creek Fire cause last week which some other Sierra nerds might find interesting: http://www.fs.usda.gov/sites/default/fi ... dacted.pdf

Lightning is labelled the probable cause, despite all that speculation last year given the timing around Labor Day.

I might go ahead and file a FOIA request to force them to divulge the opaque decision making process happening here mandating the full closure. All emails exchanged regarding the discussion - just to actually see whether there's even any coordination happening with BLM and the NPS or if this is just some muckety muck in the USDA making arbitrary calls for personal political/career reasons.

[ericmcornelius]

I know many people here might think otherwise and I might get ridiculed, but this state and the country as a whole slowly but surely turning into a nanny state our founding fathers would be ashamed of. Show me the evidence of one wildfire started by a hiker/backpacker/climber. I bet there are none. Bureaucrats at all levels starting to feel empowered by the events of last year and they ALWAYS know better what's good for an individual and society in general. Liberty to make your own decisions, take risks and be responsible for your own actions will soon be things of the past in all aspects of our lives. Sadly it's our own fault...

I certainly understand the idea of personal responsibility. The problem is that for every experienced hiker who is not likely to start a fire, there are hundreds of other visitors who might, and really, there is no way for the Forest Service to tell them apart. All those cars at the trailhead - who would be responsible, and who would light an illegal campfire? All those cars on the forest roads - who would have a trailer tire blowout that sparks a fire from the rim scraping the road (this really happened a couple years ago and started a massive wildfire up by Redding that burned hundreds of homes)? The problem is that we have a small Forest Service with really limited budget trying to manage millions of acres of land open to the responsible and irresponsible alike. So with no capacity to spare to deal with new problems, they take the only course they can see - close the forests. I don't like it, but I can certainly understand it.
-Phil

Not only that, ALL available resources are currently being stressed to the absolute limit by the Caldor Fire and it's growth towards Lake Tahoe. If anything did go wrong anywhere else, they simply don't have the bandwidth to address it. Those guys have been pulling 48 hour shifts already, and there are simply no other resources available.

My cousin's partner works a saw on the Eldorado IHC.

So glad they at least got recalled from McFarland to work their home turf.

That said, I've spoken with an awful lot of FS employees that believe blanket closures vs. more targeted ones against higher risk usage like overnights are not an effective deterrent to new starts and merely a symbolic gesture.

Indeed, many seem to fear it's going to lead to an additional surge in illegal dispersed camping that is *far far* more frequently a trigger.

And speaking from Covid experience from last year - I don't think you're going to stop said behavior with current staffing levels.

Perhaps the USFS should just be deputizing those of us who live in these communities so we can actually be outside while simultaneously patrolling and citing.

[Wandering Daisy]

Inyo NF runs the permits for the sierra part of Toyiabe NF and the Hoover Wilderness is now closed- no permits available. Anyone know if the BLM campgrounds on the east side of the Sierra still open?

It seems like enforcement is possible if a car is parked at a trailhead, or down the road. Once in the wilderness, staying off trails, enforcement is likely impossible. It does seem overkill to not allow locals to day-hike and fish on the NF. They simply can choose days with better air quality and easily bail out if needed.

As for going eastward, to unrestricted mountain areas, the smoke plume from California fires extend to many areas in the Rockies. Also smoke from fires in Montana. Last year, when smoke from California hit the Wind River Mountains, it was pretty thick and unpleasant too. Southern Colorado seems to have clear air now. Monsoonal moisture and flash flood warnings are throughout the SW- S. Ca, Arizona and Utah. Not sure there is much of an escape from current conditions.

I am dead set against local citizen vigilantes patrolling the wilderness. That puts everyone involved in a potentially confrontational situation. A bit discriminatory and elitist too.

I am spending my time now cleaning dead leaves and making my own yard safer if a fire were to happen. Not as fun as backpacking, but at least a workout and useful.

[rlown]

Lost coast?

[ericmcornelius]

Inyo NF runs the permits for the sierra part of Toyiabe NF and the Hoover Wilderness is now closed- no permits available. Anyone know if the BLM campgrounds on the east side of the Sierra still open?

It seems like enforcement is possible if a car is parked at a trailhead, or down the road. Once in the wilderness, staying off trails, enforcement is likely impossible. It does seem overkill to not allow locals to day-hike and fish on the NF. They simply can choose days with better air quality and easily bail out if needed.

As for going eastward, to unrestricted mountain areas, the smoke plume from California fires extend to many areas in the Rockies. Also smoke from fires in Montana. Last year, when smoke from California hit the Wind River Mountains, it was pretty thick and unpleasant too. Southern Colorado seems to have clear air now. Monsoonal moisture and flash flood warnings are throughout the SW- S. Ca, Arizona and Utah. Not sure there is much of an escape from current conditions.

I am dead set against local citizen vigilantes patrolling the wilderness. That puts everyone involved in a potentially confrontational situation. A bit discriminatory and elitist too.

I am spending my time now cleaning dead leaves and making my own yard safer if a fire were to happen. Not as fun as backpacking, but at least a workout and useful.

Far as I know the BLM campground in Long Valley is - as are all the dispersed options because of course that's evidently *not* a risk.

Prone to change of course.

Of course, we've evidently got a dangerous algae bloom in Crowley now too just to add to the apocalyptic fun.

As for patrol - given there's zero enforcement I merely mean optional official volunteer enrollment in the USFS for enforcement purposes. Since they evidently can't scrape together the change to - y'know - pay anyone.

Love to know why they seemingly didn't get a dime in their budget from the Great American Outdoors Act passage - but then of course it's probably all going to pilot and equipment budgets dropping retardant.

[ericmcornelius]

Also, as of yesterday, the Bridgeport Ranger District zone was fully open - Inyo is not the responsible organization for permitting anything north of Lundy.

Which is rather funny, because we in Mammoth have to drive about halfway *towards* the Caldor Fire to find open forest and wilderness.

[SSSdave]

As noted on our other thread, this person agrees with closures generally though admittedly am not among those that had any plans or interest for the near term. Of trivial importance personally, just something to give my 2 cents over. Doing so before the holiday was a wise NFS move to that goal and as closures are just a few weeks, one might expect they'll reconsider at that time. Their target is obviously the much greater numbers of front country visitors and car campers and not we far fewer more educated backcountry users. To a minor degree, the minority of backcountry users especially the thru trail users that have increasingly ignored campfire elevation policies are part of their equation. Just significant numbers of people in this era, unlike when I grew up, that treat all manner of policies like freeway 65mph speed limits. Inyo can readily gate roads to some trailheads especially with cooperation from the BLM and CalTrans like Devil's Postpile and block access to parking. Plenty of hiking available about Pacific coastal parks but that won't help mountain region residents.

[tyoungberg]

From what I understand it is all forests in region 5 (pacific southwest), which excludes humboldt toiyabe nf. Lots of great terrain to explore in eastern NV for those willing to make the trek. Pray for the firefighters and those impacted by the fires.

[mkbgdns]

any of those opposed live or work in South Lake Tahoe? if not for highly imperfect NFS, Ediza Lake might be a Disney Resort, $300/night. you had to be in Mineral King 50 years ago (I was) to get that. I support closure and devoting all (inadequate) resources to current crises.