Petition To Change Back To Pre-Covid Walk-in Permit System

[Harlen]

x2 on your rant, and x2 on relocating-- Wyoming here we come!

Or maybe Colorado:

[TurboHike]

When I looked again after the 15 minute cut-off, there were available permits on Bishop Pass, Kearsarge Pass, McGee Pass, Pine Creek, the River Trail, and the High Trail. It was only two or three at each location, but it shows that people are either going to multiple locations at 7:00 and then not completing the purchase when they get their first choice, are using bots, or are commercial outfitters who don't click the "Yes" button as to whether it's a commercially guided trip.

A different explanation is that every member of a group is trying to score a permit at 7 am. This increases the group's chance for success. For example, suppose a group of 3 is trying to get a permit for Bishop Pass. They have 3 chances at 7 am if each person has a computer. If all 3 manage to add a permit to their shopping cart on recreation.gov, they can then exchange text messages and agree on who is actually going to book the permit, with the other 2 people exiting without reserving. This would free up some spots about 15 minutes later.

[Bishop_Bob]

Having spent this past week getting shut out from my preferred TH immediately at 8AM, I'm calling BS. Could bots be at play?

Well, I managed to get a permit this morning, which would seem to disprove my conspiracy theory (or maybe bots take the weekend off).

[mcgenes]

I don't know if this was already pointed out on HST, but Yosemite Conservancy is hiring the Director of Wilderness Operations...the person who oversees the permitting system: https://yosemite.org/wp-content/uploads ... 1.2022.pdf

"The Director of Wilderness Operations is responsible for overseeing all aspects of the wilderness permit reservation system that the Conservancy manages on behalf of Yosemite National Park."
Marnie

[mkbgdns]

this season, conservancy has handed over wilderness permits to rec.gov. maybe vacancy has something to do with this, and conservancy will resume permitting for "23. we'll see.

[wildhiker]

Yosemite is using recreation.gov to let you submit your requests for their weekly permit reservation lottery. I get the impression that the Yosemite Conservancy is still the one who processes the lottery and assign the actual permits.
-Phil

[JosiahSpurr]

I agree that the quotas in this system are a sham (though some will argue the semantics of using that term).

I read something on HST years ago about the quota system. Would someone point out the thread, here? It spoke about the law and the quota system. The LAW says, "no more than 55,000 people in the Sierra Nevada on any given day" (or something like that). The quota system is intended to ensure that the ##,### number is never exceeded. Since the number of people in the back country plummets to near zero in the middle of winter, they end the quota system in Nov. (?) and turn it back on in the spring. And, of course, it's months like July that the govt' is most worried about us law breakers breaking the law!!! Confession, I hiked the Rae Lakes Loop one July 4th without a permit (probably to get as far away as possible from driving that LA bus). A ranger tried to check my permit. She let me go... nearing the ranger hut at Road's End, I hear "your one hour late" (I put a sign on my car saying what time and day I expected to return). This ranger was clearly the SENIOR ranger (the one who stopped me on the trail was a young-in' doing the walk-in'). OK, I hear the lecture, then, she let's me pay the permit fee- we leave the dough on the table in the hut. She says, it's better this way, because the money that is paid by hikers obtaining permits goes straight to Washington, D.C, and "we never see that money again." Here's the end of my story: I get to my car, and two rangers packing heat (and badges, real badges) check my driver's license and insurance. Ah, the great outdoors! I recall it was a heavy snow year. The north side of the pass was in snow up to my hips. (Wow, I was young back then.) Before slogging up to the pass in the mid-afternoon sun, I helped an Asian man and several Asian young men cross a creek (it was high from the run-off). They said they were going to.... well, it didn't seem to me that they were going to ascend up to the pass when I was at my limit (!) Ah, the great outdoors! ***

[Lumbergh21]

I disagree that the lottery system like Yosemite runs is fairer or better. Personally, I don't like paying a permit fee, processing fee, or whatever they want to call it just to enter a lottery for the chance to get a permit. That does not seem fair to me; it seems like a money grab. Given the reported numbers of applications for the JMT, they are taking in around $1,000 per day for the chance to get a permit at one of the two designated JMT trailheads and handing out a handful of permits. I have been able to reserve permits well in advance using Rec.gov or (last year) 2 weeks in advance. I don't see the system as broken, but then again, I don't remember the "good old days". I also appreciate being able to print the permit at home before leaving rather than going to the Ranger station to hear about LNT and waste a day because I need to drive down the day before my hike starts (or, I guess I could have left home at 2 AM the day of). Based on what I have seen and heard, people will still do what they want to do whether that is strict LNT, partial LNT, or "I'll do what I want; it's my land!", so The Talk seems rather pointless. I also think that there is a chance that this is just a blip in the system, and it will both get better and we will get better at using it. One thing that I think is certain is that we will see if it gets better because it isn't going back to the way it was.

[sbennett3705]

I'm new here and would like to ask a basic question. I'd like to plan a popular hike (North Lake to South Lake) and see all permits from June onward are now "walk up". Do I fly to California and take the risk there will be a free permit, do need to plan on trying a few days in a row, or am I wasting my time? Locals to California have better options, being within driving distance. I'm coming from out of state and pretty nervous about the whole process. Thanks in advance for any advice!

[wildhiker]

I'm new here and would like to ask a basic question. I'd like to plan a popular hike (North Lake to South Lake) and see all permits from June onward are now "walk up". Do I fly to California and take the risk there will be a free permit, do need to plan on trying a few days in a row, or am I wasting my time? Locals to California have better options, being within driving distance. I'm coming from out of state and pretty nervous about the whole process. Thanks in advance for any advice!

Read the full information about Inyo Wilderness Permits on recreation.gov and follow links to the Inyo Forest website if necessary. Somewhere in there you will see that "walk-up" permits are not really done in person. instead, that tranche of
permits is released on recreation.gov exactly 14 days in advance at 7 am Pacific Time. So, for example, if you want to hike out of North Lake on the Piute Pass trailhead on Saturday, July 30, you would be sitting in front of your computer, logged into your recreation.gov account, with the Inyo National Forest Wilderness Permits "available permits" page selected, with your type of permit, date, and party size selected, all before 7 am Pacific Time on Saturday, July 16, which is 14 days prior. Before 7, it should show Piute Pass in the "W" state. Making sure you are synchronized with network time on your computer (or phone), at a second or two after 7 a.m, refresh your browser page, quickly re-enter your party size or other data needed, scroll down to Piute Pass, and hope that a non-zero number has appeared. Click it and book it!

I suggest that you have a plan B and C ready that can start on the same day but on lesser used trailheads where you are more likely to find an available permit from the "walk-up" pool 14 days in advance, in case you can't get Piute Pass. Just browsing around the recreation.gov website looking at permit availability for Inyo, Sierra, and Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forests, and Yosemite National Park, all trailheads that feed directly to the John Muir Trail within a day's hike are mostly fully reserved and will have lots of competition for those "walk-up" permits. Minor trails on the Inyo Forest, generally the extremely steep and difficult ones or the ones that dead-end in smaller basins, still have some availability. Most trailheads on the Sierra Forest (west-side) have a lot of availability, as do the east-side trailheads in the Hoover Wilderness on the northern boundary of Yosemite Park (Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest). Yosemite high country trailhead permits are as competitive as the main Inyo trailheads, if not more so. I didn't check Sequoia-Kings Canyon National Park permits (west-side) - you should look at those, as well.

-Phil