High Sierra Topix

Thanks all for responding to my post...hopefully it stimulated some thoughts for everyone

I much prefer a physical barrier (clothing) to sunscreen. I do the whole routine: long pants, long sleeved shirt, Tilley hat, sun gloves. The sun gloves are particularly important if you use trekking poles at high altitude. Because I do a lot of bushwhacking/xc travel, the clothing also protects me from floral attacks.

If one is planning on hiking in snow, something many on this board will be doing in June, sunscreen is still essential, unless you're prepared to wear a bandanna over your face. I was reduced to this expedient last June up the Muro Blanco to Arrow Peak. My buddy and I both forgot sunscreen and paid the price. Even a few hours in these conditions can fry your face.

I don't fear the sun and try to spend 20 minutes a day as exposed as possible. It provides the most assimilable form of Vitamin D and is a big mood elevator. I am fair skinned and have had a lot of burns my whole life but since I started doing small doses every day, I no longer burn easily. Extreme situations like last June of course will still require a good sunscreen, but in everyday life, I can handle a lot more sun without burning. I still get checked yearly by a dermatologist.

I also cannot help but think that our species has been living under this same sun for millions of years, and only in the past 50 or so have we seen this surge in skin cancers. I have to believe there is something else at work in concert with sun exposure: chemicals in the sunscreens themselves? free radicals produced from a diet high in polyunsaturated fats? Chemicals in plastics? I have no idea, but it's an interesting speculation.

just to throw this up for discussion - no idea iif they are on to something...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15714114" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Abstract
Sunscreen products are rated upon their ability to inhibit visible redness of the skin 24 h after measured doses of ultraviolet (UV) exposure (Sun Protection Factor, SPF). Although sunscreens prevent UV-induced redness, their ability to protect against melanoma or the development of moles is less clear. UV-induced redness occurs in part by the action of nitric oxide (NO), synthesized in the skin. NO is also an important immunoregulatory molecule in the induction of the cell-mediated tumour immune response. In this study, various sunscreen ingredients were tested for their ability to inhibit the production of NO. Four of the five sunscreens tested directly inhibited the conversion of arginine to citrulline by inducible nitric oxide synthase (iNOS) in vitro. These findings suggest that sunscreens may prevent redness partly by UV absorption and partly by inhibition of the skin's inflammatory response. As such, sunscreens might promote instead of protect against melanoma."

sunscreens might promote instead of protect against melanoma.

I did hear something like this a number of years ago. Looks like a damned if you do, damned if you don’t kind of situation. Seem either way you will get cancer. At least with the sunscreen, you won’t get fried! Makes you think that long sleeve pants and shirts with a wide brim hat is the best choice.

melanoma makes up only a small percentage of skin cancers, so not sure if that really matters.

I put on the old zink oxide on lips and nose tips, top of ears if not covered. Or I use the old glacier glasses with the leather flap on the nose.

Zoltan wrote:
I don't fear the sun and try to spend 20 minutes a day as exposed as possible. It provides the most assimilable form of Vitamin D and is a big mood elevator. I am fair skinned and have had a lot of burns my whole life but since I started doing small doses every day, I no longer burn easily. Extreme situations like last June of course will still require a good sunscreen, but in everyday life, I can handle a lot more sun without burning. I still get checked yearly by a dermatologist.

I also cannot help but think that our species has been living under this same sun for millions of years, and only in the past 50 or so have we seen this surge in skin cancers. I have to believe there is something else at work in concert with sun exposure: chemicals in the sunscreens themselves? free radicals produced from a diet high in polyunsaturated fats? Chemicals in plastics? I have no idea, but it's an interesting speculation.

I think if your theory were true I would not have had skin cancer at all. I hardly touched sunscreen as a kid. I still got a large spot on my back, and only as a kid did I ever expose my back (wore a halter top all summer) - as an adult I have always worn shirts. I am not a habitual swimmer (maybe ten or fifteen visits to swimming pools in DECADES) and always, always always always cover up.

I can handle NO sun without burning. I burn on cloudy days. I have a very faint tan on my arms, built up through years of moderate exposure, but they will still burn within an hour. I wear long sleeves, long pants, sun gloves, big hat, AND sunscreen. And I have always been one to enjoy time outdoors. Just not when I'm not wearing some form of protection.

interesting. I recently discovered that hiking in a full shirt and pants isn't as hot as i thought it would be. less slather of chemicals. Even in July last year when it was hot, I had a synth under cotton to keep the bugs from getting through and it was awesome.

My ear tips, nose and cheeks get burned the most so they get slathered, but I fear I should wear sunglasses more. I have them, but I don't like how they distort reality. Don't really want cataracts, so, I guess I'll have to where them on the more boring sections. Wait, there aren't usually boring sections

fishmonger wrote: As such, sunscreens might promote instead of protect against melanoma."

This article is from 2005 and was accurate for the time. At that time very few sunscreens had the ingredients necessary for broad spectrum protection, including the UVA/long rays that promote skin cancers. Old sunblocks prevented sunburn but probably not cancer. Since then a growing number of sunblocks have added ingredients to expand the spectrum they block and now do offer protection against cancer promoting rays. However, you have to know what the ingredients are and read the label, because many sunscreens don't have them, and the SPF factor only measures UVB protection.

Basil cell and squamous cell are more common than melanoma, but are rarely fatal (.03%). Melanoma is less common but is fatal 20% of the time. I've had all three in my family.

The surge of skin cancers is pretty easy to explain. People wear a lot less clothing than they used to, and hats have fallen out of fashion. Furthermore, many more people of European ancestry with very fair skin have moved south. England is at the same latitude as Calgary, after all, and there are now a lot of fair skinned people living in places like California and Florida. Finally, some believe that the thinning of the ozone layer over the last fifty years has been a factor.

I personally agree with those who just cover up as much as possible rather than relying on sunblocks. But you do need something for your face.

When I was a kid, I used to get burned and not think twice about it.

Also, I'm pretty hairy, and always HATED greasy sunscreen matting my arm hair and just making me feel like i needed a shower.

With the advent of the non-oily/greasy stuff (and being better educated on skin cancer)I use it religiously, and cover up. A combo of quality, breathable clothing and "clean" feeling sunscreen work for me. It just has to become part of your routine.

This brings back fond memories of one of the first viral emails from the late 90s (the famous Kurt Vonnegut commencement address at MIT that wasn't): http://www.jamesshuggins.com/h/tek1/sunscreen.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Anyone else remember it? Of course I doubt many people here would agree with "Live in Northern California once, but leave before it makes you soft"

Ladies and gentlemen of the class of '97: Wear sunscreen:
If I could offer you only one tip for the future, sunscreen would be it. The long-term benefits of sunscreen have been proved by scientists, whereas the rest of my advice has no basis more reliable than my own meandering experience. I will dispense this advice now.
Enjoy the power and beauty of your youth. Oh, never mind. You will not understand the power and beauty of your youth until they've faded. But trust me, in 20 years, you'll look back at photos of yourself and recall in a way you can't grasp now how much possibility lay before you and how fabulous you really looked. You are not as fat as you imagine.
Don't worry about the future. Or worry, but know that worrying is as effective as trying to solve an algebra equation by chewing bubble gum. The real troubles in your life are apt to be things that never crossed your worried mind, the kind that blind side you at 4 pm on some idle Tuesday.
Do one thing every day that scares you.
Sing.
Don't be reckless with other people's hearts. Don't put up with people who are reckless with yours.
Floss.
Don't waste your time on jealousy. Sometimes you're ahead, sometimes you're behind. The race is long and, in the end, it's only with yourself.
Remember compliments you receive. Forget the insults. If you succeed in doing this, tell me how.
Keep your old love letters. Throw away your old bank statements.
Stretch.
Don't feel guilty if you don't know what you want to do with your life. The most interesting people I know didn't know at 22 what they wanted to do with their lives. Some of the most interesting 40 year olds I know still don't know.
Get plenty of calcium. Be kind to your knees. You'll miss them when they're gone.
Maybe you'll marry, maybe you won't. Maybe you'll have children, maybe you won't. Maybe you'll divorce at 40, maybe you'll dance the funky chicken on your 75th anniversary. Whatever you do, don't congratulate yourself too much, or berate yourself either. Your choices are half chance. So are everybody else's.
Enjoy your body. Use it every way you can. Don't be afraid of it or of what other people think of it. It's the greatest instrument you'll ever own.
Dance, even if you have nowhere to do it but your living room.
Read the directions, even if you don't follow them.
Do not read beauty magazines. They will only make you feel ugly.
Get to know your parents. You never know when they'll be gone for good.
Be nice to your siblings. They're your best link to your past and the people most likely to stick with you in the future.
Understand that friends come and go, but with a precious few you should hold on. Work hard to bridge the gaps in geography and lifestyle, because the older you get, the more you need the people who knew you when you were young.
Live in New York City once, but leave before it makes you hard. Live in Northern California once, but leave before it makes you soft.
Travel.
Accept certain inalienable truths: Prices will rise. Politicians will philander. You, too, will get old. And when you do, you'll fantasize that when you were young, prices were reasonable, politicians were noble, and children respected their elders. Respect your elders. Don't expect anyone else to support you. Maybe you have a trust fund. Maybe you'll have a wealthy spouse. But you never know when either one might run out.
Don't mess too much with your hair or by the time you're 40 it will look 85.
Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia. Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.
But trust me on the sunscreen.