High Sierra Topix

rlown wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 12:34 pm I live on a ranch with a barn. We have a few rats. A few less because the 3 dogs serve double duty.

Then you don't need a cat, obviously.

John

"Side note: I'd get rid of all the cats to feed the starving people first. Haven't seen a working cat, ever."

Ha! Touche, I should have excluded well trained hunting dogs or seeing eye dogs or any other dog that serves a purpose. I'm on board for banning cats too since they're one of the worst invasive species on the planet, although my wife would kill me.

As far as the actual topic at hand goes, I don't really see any way to prevent incidents like that without requiring leashes or banning dogs, and requiring leashes is harder to enforce.

I see. Because there are some ill-behaved dogs the easiest solution is to ban dogs in the wilderness. Well, there are some ill-behaved backpackers. Let's just ban all backpackers. In fact the Forest Service and NPS could really reduce their budgets by all use, altogether. Gate off all roads. Keep we pesky backpackers out.

Yes. The wilderness is for wildlife, and for people to visit (because if people weren't allowed then less people would support their protection). Allowing humans is a necessary tradeoff, dogs not so much. The wildlife and majority of people don't want to see or hear dogs out there so it's odd that the minority of dog owners should be able to force the majority of wilderness users to be around dogs and their poo. I think pets should be like motorcycle or bicycles, brought to the national forest or BLM property where unnatural impact uses can have their fun too.

Pretty sure dogs were tramping around there before there were wilderness areas and most of our great, great grandparents were born.. Most of the settlers brought dogs with them.

Dogs were an important food source for many tribes, supposedly quite tasty. Also, grizzly bears and wolves were present, so having dogs might help prevent surprise encounters. Times have changed. The need for them as food, protection, or early warning in the wild has significantly diminished in the last 200 years.

John

limpingcrab wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 7:28 pm It's odd that the minority of dog owners should be able to force the majority of wilderness users to be around dogs and their poo.

I regularly pick up multiple bags of dog poop on my daily walks through my neighborhood. Explain that one. Someone goes to the trouble to pick up a steaming stool, put it in a nice little bag, and leave it for someone else to transport to the trash can. There's a reason a lot of dog owners get a bad rap, they earned it.

John

Wandering Daisy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 08, 2022 6:56 pm I see. Because there are some ill-behaved dogs the easiest solution is to ban dogs in the wilderness.

Like they say, "There are no bad dogs, only bad owners."

John

John Harper wrote: ↑Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:12 am I regularly pick up multiple bags of dog poop on my daily walks through my neighborhood. Explain that one. Someone goes to the trouble to pick up a steaming stool, put it in a nice little bag, and leave it for someone else to transport to the trash can. There's a reason a lot of dog owners get a bad rap, they earned it.

John

I've seen bags of dog poop on the trail through Little Lakes Valley. I was offended by this, but it occurs to me now that maybe they were deposited on the way out and the plan was to pick them up on the way back.

Not sure "bad dog" is the word that should be used. Some dogs just should not be taken out on the trails. I got nipped by a dog years ago while belaying at a climbing area. The owner said, sorry, but they just got this rescue dog who had a history of abuse, and he was afraid of people. We have a family member who has a rescue dog that is so psychotic that it attacks the other dog in the house. Some dogs just simply react poorly to new situations.

Here is the deal- IF you really want your dog off leash then you have to be watching them 100% of the time. Put the dog on a leash when you are burned out with this responsibility. Personally, I prefer to backpack without my dog unless my husband is with me so this responsibility can be shared.

There already are plenty of trails in National Parks that do not allow dogs and those who are dead-set against dogs may be more comfortable there.

And I agree that there are some trails that are not compatible with dog use. Narrow trails on continuous very steep exposed terrain where neither backpacker nor dog can move off the trail is an accident waiting to happen. I cannot imagine dogs on the Whitney trail.

There will always be a disconnect between dog lovers and those who are dog adverse. I would hope we could agree on some middle ground that does not involve words like "always, ban dogs altogether, require specific leash lengths, and other absolutes. Of all the dogs I have met on the trail (and off-trail too) a small percentage have behaved poorly.