High Sierra Topix

There's also Packsaddle Pass which was okay. As I recall, it is a bit steep on the north side but not loose like Snow Tongue.

HighPlains - I'm going to try Pack Saddle in two weeks, I'll let you know. I crossed Glacier Divide further to the west than Ramona. Followed up the next creek west, the one that leads to lake 10907' on the Harrison map. Gives you a chance to stroll over to rarely visited Pavillion dome. The south side of Glacier Divide is easy walking ground, making a long traverse while paralleling the JMT a pleasure.

Thanks for the report! I appreciated that you went over Haeckel Col and Snow Tongue on the same trip and can compare both, as I've been hesitant to attempt either due to reports I've seen. This validates my decision in 2012 to take the long way around the Glacier Divide (Ramona to Lake 10907 to the pass W of 11236) rather than try to cross via Snow Tongue.

Thegib, please report back on Packsaddle Pass -- I've been considering using this pass for a future Glacier Divide trip as well.

snow tongue is high on my list of most nervous/must do.

Snow Tongue is infamous and therefore might seem like a challenge to put on some list. I consider it dangerous and to be avoided. With most dangerous passes, depending on your appetite for risk, you can decide to glissade with your shoes, slide on your pants, or, like me, use every opportunity to hang onto or climb the side walls of the passage. There is a portion of Snow Tongue where you just can't avoid loose very large unpredictable rubble in extremely vertical situations, with nothing fixed to depend on. Sometimes "difficult" is used to describe "dangerous", and that would be here. I was there in a very high snow month/year, and even then, it was super scary. Interesting that Roper did not recommend one of other nearby passes. I want to check them out personally before recommending them, but they don't appear to be much of a diversion.

CAMERONM wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:19 pm

snow tongue is high on my list of most nervous/must do.

Snow Tongue is infamous and therefore might seem like a challenge to put on some list. I consider it dangerous and to be avoided. With most dangerous passes, depending on your appetite for risk, you can decide to glissade with your shoes, slide on your pants, or, like me, use every opportunity to hang onto or climb the side walls of the passage. There is a portion of Snow Tongue where you just can't avoid loose very large unpredictable rubble in extremely vertical situations, with nothing fixed to depend on. Sometimes "difficult" is used to describe "dangerous", and that would be here. I was there in a very high snow month/year, and even then, it was super scary. Interesting that Roper did not recommend one of other nearby passes. I want to check them out personally before recommending them, but they don't appear to be much of a diversion.

Roper does, indeed, mention Alpine Col and The Keyhole as alternates to Snow-Tongue. But he also says about Snow-Tongue something along the lines of "others have come this way, so don't be scared."

"others have come this way, so don't be scared."

When I asked a Professor if I should undertake a certain direction in my project, he told me that "others have walked across the Charles River during winter, so it has been done". I did not find that comment very encouraging.

High passes are in a constant state of disintegration - the conditions Roper found and described in the 70's may simply be different from what we now find. The timeless change at the top of the world means our experience of it is always a fresh one.

If doing the High Route (and not a purist) you can avoid the entire problem by a resupply at North Lake; coming out over Lemark Col and going in Piute pass and intersect the route at the lower Wahoo Lakes, avoiding both the dangerous pass itself and the horrible talus above Wahoo Lakes.

I doubt Snow Tongue was any better in the 70's. By the time you get there from the south, it is a long retreat back, so most people, in complete ignorance, head down the slope and pray. I ascended from Wahoo Lakes and by the time I realized the danger I was closer to the top and decided it was less risky to simply continue to the top.

Seasonal conditions can also make a difference. There is less risk when snow covered and the snow is in good condition, if you have experience and are equipped for steep snow. If however you do it during the melt, when the slope is saturated in addition to loose, it is even more dangerous. In fact all slopes are less stable when saturated, something to consider on any pass.

Hi Drifter,
It's possible to cross the divide at the saddle to the west of lake 11236, make your way down to lake 10907 then up to the obvious shelf to the north, follow this round the corner, then traverse below cliffs to Ramona.
Nothing above Class 2
Dave