Planning Piute Pass Late July

[Matthewkphx]

I asked a couple pages ago about the east side of the crest in Sabrina Basin vs the west side of the crest in Humphreys as I have permits for both locations one week apart. I didn't get much of an answer to my (perhaps vaguely worded) question: is there typically a significant difference in the snow accumulation and subsequent melt on the east side (Sabrina) and west side (Humphreys)? The areas are geographically close and at comparable altitude.

Thanks for any reposonses!

[AlmostThere]

Snow stays longest on north facing slopes. Though it sometimes just does what it wants. Elevation is the real problem... your route has lots of it.

[WarrenFork]

Elevation is the real problem... your route has lots of it.

Nope. It's simply not true that the higher you go, the deeper the snow. Many scientific studies bear this out worldwide, and it has been well established in these parts at least since Orland Bartholomew skied the length of the High Sierra in the winter of 1928-1929. To quote Thomas Grünewald of the Swiss Institute for Snow and Avalanche Research in the link above, "Mean snow depths increase with elevation up to a certain level where they have a distinct peak followed by a decrease at the highest elevations."

Most studies locate the maximum depth level somewhere around 3000 meters or 10,000 feet. Three years ago, a study by a team of researchers led by Peter Kirchner of the Sierra Nevada Research Institute at UC Merced put it higher, based on their 58 sq. km. study plot: "We found that snow depth as a function of elevation increased approximately 15 cm per 100 m, until reaching an elevation of 3300 m, where depth sharply decreased at a rate of 48 cm per 100 m."

If memory serves, Bartholomew encountered the deepest snows on his "High Odyssey" between 8500 and 9500 feet. But even the 3300 m figure proposed by the Kirchner study is below the 11,000 to 12,000 foot elevations of Humphreys Basin. You'll find less snow than lower down, and in my experience when I lived in Bishop and spent a lot of time up there all that wide open space is something of a heat sink that melts out quite a bit sooner than the adjacent Bear Lakes area, for example. My guess is it would be easier going than above Sabrina, too. You'll find hollows with foxtail pines still buried, but lots of bare granite too. The Sabrina area gets more afternoon shade.

[rlown]

Ok.. so what you're really saying is the approach to the pass is the problem. If that is what you meant then yes given the year/snow. I would agree that the approach is a problem most places this year.

[beamountainman]

This is sounding like a divorce to me.

I witnessed a domestic violence incident on the trail once -- the husband shot by me looking dapper in his new REI gear, complete with trekking poles. The wife labored up to me a few minutes later. She asked how far to <landmark> and I answered honestly. I have never heard someone shriek that way -- she chased him out of sight.

If you are thinking of just taking her without full disclosure, rethink it....

I would not assume anything about snow above 10000 feet in July. I am being told by rangers to expect ice and snow on some of my planned high passes in SEPTEMBER. I had plans to be In Evolution in July and I am rewriting them.

Look: http://www.highsierratopix.com/communit ... 34&t=15947

Never said I would not disclose to her what we were facing, and confident we will still be married by the end of the year. She is nervous because I am sharing everything with her. In fact, I'll be more risk adverse with her there.

Appreciate everyone's responses. I'll keep planning to find a safe way this year

[rlown]

Honest discussions are good.. Watch cdec and weather stations near your target and call the ranger a LOT. If it's all white, she might (just might) hate you forever..

[beamountainman]

Honest discussions are good.. Watch cdec and weather stations near your target and call the ranger a LOT. If it's all white, she might (just might) hate you forever..

Thanks. I moved my permit to end of August and changed to lamark entrance and head north instead. Ill had to drop the additional 2 guests (I said up front that we may not be able to get more then 2).

I have the cdec bookmarked, and will keep looking. Any other source suggestions would be helpful!

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

[Hobbes]

Bartholomew encountered the deepest snows on his "High Odyssey" between 8500 and 9500 feet.

I recall he began his trip with a winter storm fast approaching. Rather than wait it out lower down Cottonwood canyon (this was long before the Horseshoe road was built), he actually hiked **up** into the storm in order to get to a higher elevation. As you summarized, he discovered there's actually less snow accumulation once you reach the rocky sections at/around tree line.

When Andy and I came back down from Bishop pass early last month, we spoke to a ranger who mentioned that Piute was somewhat clear since the wind had been blowing a lot of accumulation away. You can see the same phenomenon experiencing/viewing Whitney photos - the summit is almost always clear, whereas both the main trail (especially Trail crest) and the MR are filled with snow.