High Sierra Topix

The hermit wrote:Bring a stove. I instead of staring down at a campfire all night let your eyes adjust and look up at the stars. Could be the best part of your trip.

This. Fire hypnosis is a drag, everybody staring at the fire like zombies.
Although, I don't know about the stars part. We usually get to bed at sunset especially in high summer, and get up before sunrise, usually packing the last stuff in our packs just as the sun hits. Nothing like being on the trail as the wilderness wakes up and the world is new.
Naturally there is the occasional nocturnal call of nature, and if you are not freezing your tush off, its nice to look up at the starry universe and realize what a tiny speck of protoplasm you really are.

jessegooddog wrote:Doesn't mean it won't burn, and the forest floor and critters need the decaying wood.

I'm afraid you don't understand my point. It's an extreme measure for extreme conditions yet they freely admit that conditions aren't even close to extreme at elevations in which most people backpack.


It sounds to me like just another controlling, oppressive, unreasonable regulation put in place by a lazy bureaucrat.

caddis wrote:

jessegooddog wrote:Doesn't mean it won't burn, and the forest floor and critters need the decaying wood.

I'm afraid you don't understand my point. It's an extreme measure for extreme conditions yet they freely admit that conditions aren't even close to extreme at elevations in which most people backpack.


It sounds to me like just another controlling, oppressive, unreasonable regulation put in place by a lazy bureaucrat.

All I know is, if you burn out some favorite place I like to go and make it inhospitable and ugly - I'm gonna find you! Everything up there is DRY. It's a tinder box.

People are ridiculously careless about fires and I end up putting them out - in vacated campsites. I found a still-hot ring OFF TRAIL while on a search once. Pisses me off.

There have already been a ton of fires out there caused by campfire error - people evacuated the hills around Mariposa because of one, just a month and a half ago. Lives are risked and millions of dollars of property damage, and bans are unreasonable? Better no fires than no people. I'm about to the point that I think the average camper is not to be trusted with matches. There are some former beautiful places that are now hell to hike through because of people.

AlmostThere wrote:Better no fires than no people.

Much as I despise over-regulation, I completely agree with this. Not having a fire (and nowadays I never do, since i'm always camped above 10K) is a small trade-off to be able to have access to the wilderness in a 'high fire conditions' season.

And its not just campers who are careless. Years ago, I put out a small fire ignited by flares left burning after an accident in Yosemite nearly Glacier Point! And in the Santa Monica Mountains very close to my former home, I stopped and argued with a highway patrolman who also had flares burning right at the edge of the dry grasses. I was so pissed I moved them myself and he was none too pleased.

caddis wrote:

AlmostThere wrote: What I'm upset with are the folks out there who feel they are somehow special and get to ignore reasonable precautions or regulations.

Are they reasonable precautions and regulations?? If you look at Exhibit A in the the forest service's own Forest Order 15-13-08, it lists that the sierra above 7-8000 feet as a "Low Fire Hazard Area"

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOC ... 427487.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I looked at the Sierra National Forest Hazard Areas Map map in your link and the noted low fire hazard colored areas actually contain some areas of vast forest. Although significant areas of the low fire hazard colored area, especially the at or above timberline areas are low dangers, there are other forest areas within those regions especially down on canyon bottoms where dense forest exists. Thus suspect the meaning of that has more to do with dangers to developed areas of which there is little at those higher elevations and the potential impact that might have on our limited fire fighting resources to deal with any fires in more critical low elevation areas.

Moving this topic to "The Campfire" (no pun intended)

AlmostThere wrote:

caddis wrote:I'm afraid you don't understand my point. It's an extreme measure for extreme conditions yet they freely admit that conditions aren't even close to extreme at elevations in which most people backpack.


It sounds to me like just another controlling, oppressive, unreasonable regulation put in place by a lazy bureaucrat.

All I know is, if you burn out some favorite place I like to go and make it inhospitable and ugly - I'm gonna find you!