High Sierra Topix

Rough up/down

7800 MK TH
9500 +1700 Timber Gap
7000 -2500 Cliff Cr
8700 +1700 Pinto L
11700 +3000 Black Rock P
10250 -1450
10450 +200
10200 -250 Big 5 #2
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9800 -400 Big 5 #1
10300 +500
9500 -800 Lost Canyon
11000 +1600
10950 -50 Columbine L
11750 +1400 Sawtooth P
10350 -1400 Monarch L
7800 -2550 TH

Total loop up/down = 9350/9350
Worst day uphill +3000 Black Rock P
Worst day downhill -4000 Columbine then out
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Total back and out up down to Big 5 #2 via Sawtooth P = 8200/8200
Worst day uphill +2550 Monarch L
Worst day downhill -4000 Columbine then out

SSSdave wrote:Rough up/down
Total loop up/down = 9350/9350
Worst day uphill +3000 Black Rock P
Worst day downhill -4000 Columbine then out
========================
Total back and out up down to Big 5 #2 via Sawtooth P = 8200/8200
Worst day uphill +2550 Monarch L
Worst day downhill -4000 Columbine then out

Interesting, but I will say this:
I will take going over Timber Gap to, say, Pinto Lake camps any day over a first day to Monarch Lake. The Timber gap route is easier and loads more scenic, while the Monarch Lake route is more of a slog best saved for going down-hill.
I will take going over Black Rock Pass (spectacular) over that sandy slidey loose exhausting slog up a non-trail (more like an uphill sand box) from Monarch to the top of Sawtooth Pass (a "short" distance but harder) any day.
If you insist on going to Monarch Lake, then Glacier Pass becomes a better option.
The last time I went over Sawtooth Pass, it looked like some attempt had been made to improve the "trail", so maybe it is better now.
By looping going clockwise, once you get over Blackrock Pass, the rest of the hike is a breeze. The first two days on most hikes are the worst, so choose your poison. But going counterclockwise, the last day requires going over Timber Gap from the Pinto Lake canyon, a real steep slog from creek to Gap (2.8 miles and a 2471 foot gain, and as everybody knows, when it gets to be a 1000 feet per mile, that is steep!).
The whole loop on trails comes to ~26 miles. I got about 9700 feet of total up and down.
Some interesting numbers:
From Monarch Lake to Sawtooth Pass (XC): ~2 miles and ~ 1830 foot gain. (Sandy slog)
From Pinto Lake to Blackrock Pass: 3.2 miles, 3327 foot gain. (1000 feet per mile (!), well graded trail, very scenic making rest breaks worthwhile, and after Blackrock Pass, the rest of the trip is easy.)
From Monarch Lake to Spring Lake (XC): 2 miles, 969 foot gain, 1287 foot loss. (That leaves Blackrock Pass (above) still ahead.)
From Pinto Lake to Spring Lake (XC): 2.7 miles, 1666 feet gain, 258 foot loss.
Naturally cross-country (XC) with a pack is always harder than trail miles.
The two times I went from Lost Canyon over Sawtooth Pass back to the TH (from the Lost Canyon junction to the TH: 8.4 miles, 2204 foot gain, 4189 foot loss (I started nearer the pass so somewhat less numbers)), it seemed like an easy view-full day, taking a shower by noon.
Like I said, choose your poison.

Snow will be be a big problem this season everywhere. Look at your maps and consider a loop originating from Aspin Grove, up the Little Kern.

I did this route in reverse in 2009. Awesome trip. No route finding problems; just one displaced camp-mate who ended up in Little 5 Lks Basin while the rest of us camped in Big 5. He was last seen fishing naked at the lower Big 5's. He's always been a bit independent. But, that's the Sierra Geezers. We found him the next afternoon napping in his tent. Great trip. Just do it.

I did the Timber Gap -> Cliff Creek -> Black Rock Pass -> Little 5/Big 5 Lakes -> Lost Canyon -> Columbine Lake -> Sawtooth Pass loop last summer as a warm up trip for a cross-country peak bagging trip. Similar enough to your route that I thought I'd point to my trip report and photos - some suggestions are in the report. Hope it helps. Great fishing...

Trip Report
Photos
GPS Data (track w/elevation profile and distances)

thanks everyone for your replies. Everyone is talking about the same concern that I had, snow on the north side of Glacier pass. I think I will be doing a hike around the end of August but i'm not sure it wold be this one.... given the snow pack I may want to plan an alternate route just in case.

Ideally, I would like to do a 4 day loop that goes to the big five/little 5 laes area but would be open to something equally as beautiful. Does anyone have a good suggestion? (If possible I would like to avoid timber gap)

Here's an alternate loop that I found. it is a day longer than I wanted ...does anyone have a shortcut?

Day 1) Mineral King -->Sawtooth --> Columbine Lake (6.8 miles)
Day 2) Lost Canyon --> Big/little five laes -->big arroyo creek (11.6miles)
Day 3) High sierra trail --> Morraine Lake (8.1 miles)
Day 4) Funston creek--> Upper Funston Meadow -->Rattlesnake point --Forester Lake (16.5 miles)
Day 5) Franklin pass -->franklin laes -->mineral King (10.9 miles)

Thanks again!
Matt

I did that route and it was a great trip. Here is something I'm SURE of. It's a much much better route done in reverse. PM me if you want more info. Be sure to visit Long Lake.

mkosel wrote:Here's an alternate loop that I found. it is a day longer than I wanted ...does anyone have a shortcut?
Day 1) Mineral King -->Sawtooth --> Columbine Lake (6.8 miles)
Day 2) Lost Canyon --> Big/little five lakes -->big arroyo creek (11.6miles)
Day 3) High sierra trail --> Moraine Lake (8.1 miles)
Day 4) Funston creek--> Upper Funston Meadow -->Rattlesnake point --Forester Lake (16.5 miles)
Day 5) Franklin pass -->franklin lakes -->mineral King (10.9 miles)

Well I do hope you find an alternative, because the above is pretty insane. Moraine Lake to Forester Lake in a day? Just from the base of Rattlesnake Creek to Forester Lake it is over 3750 feet of gain, not counting the additional ups and downs. If you were in top condition (like just coming off the JMT/PCT) I would say go for it! If not...
One thing to do to shorten it is to go down the Big Arroyo trail: sketchy at the top, good at the bottom, just remember to always stay on the north side of the creek no matter what the trail seems to be doing. It is a pleasant hike with some unexpected views. Where the trail leaves the creek to go uphill, the camping is ideal (make your own).
I don't know why you would want to avoid Timber Gap: Blackrock Pass? Most people can make it from the TH to Pinto Lake in a day to the good camps there. From there it is is just over the pass to Big/Little Five Lakes. Beyond there everything else should be fairly easy if you do not go out of your way to punish yourself.

EDIT: One other thing. That trail section that goes from Rattlesnake Creek to Big Arroyo, it may not be there any more. I tried to find it at the Big Arroyo junction but could not. But just because I could not find it does not mean it is not there. Just a heads up.

Hi Mkosel

Here is a members request last year about this area, and then his TR with pic's that
hopefully help you in making your decision.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5310" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5439&p=34044#p34044" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Glacier Pass with snow on the north side is somewhat of a challenge at the very top, depending on your experience. There's an obvious short ramp that is the route over the pass from south to north. Everything else is a cliff. There is about 10 feet of Class 3 snow (which was very hairy for me at the time). From there, the gradient lessened and it is an easy plunge-step down.