High Sierra Topix

Dave54

On quota trails bikers going overnight will not be a significant issue as they will be subject to the constraints of the quota (of course that will make it harder for backpackers to to get a permit). No the big issue is day use where 30 to 40 mile days can bring remote places into range of day use. Now we all expect to meet lots of people within 6 miles of trail heads, but with mbs that range will extend to 15 miles and beyond. Maybe living in a mountain bike Mecca gives me over estimation of the skill of mountain bikers but from my experience few mountain bikers would be intimated by a mile or so of big step ups and even fewer would refrain from going balls to the wall down any mountain trail they were permitted to ride on.

Mike

from my experience few mountain bikers would be intimated by a mile or so of big step ups and even fewer would refrain from going balls to the wall down any mountain trail they were permitted to ride on.

From living and hiking for 40 years in the place where mountain bikes originated, that is exactly my experience. Just yesterday, my wife and I were walking up the fire road above our house when 4 bikers came careening down a biker-built illegal single track, whooping and hollering all the way. To reach the top of this single track requires a 1,000 foot climb.

I see many of you have strong opinions regarding mtb's in the wilderness and that is your right. What I see is that your opinions are so strong that many of you can't see "the forest through the trees". Many of the stories here seem quite embellished. Such a "chicken little" attitude. As evidenced by the verbs and adjectives used to describe the story. Such as "careened" down the hill, had to "jump" out of the way, nearly "run" down, they are "rude" and are "bullies", it will be a "disaster", wilderness will be "degraded", bikes are a "menace", they ride with "total aggression", and even threatening with bodily harm by putting "trekking poles into the spokes". Many of you haven't ridden a mountain bike and so you really don't know what you are talking about. Give it a chance. The sky will not fall, the wilderness will go on, and we'll all get to enjoy our adventures. It's a great activity, very enjoyable, and would love to go on a wilderness bike packing trip on trails that were sanctioned by the managing agency.

As to my posts on this, as a published writer I stand by my "careening" as exactly the right word. And, no, my story is not embellished. They were whooping and hollering as they came down. And the climb is 1,000 feet. And, yes, I've ridden a mountain bike. I prefer hiking since my knees don't like biking. My son spent his teens on a mountain bike exploring the fireroads of Fairfax/West Marin, sometimes with Jackie Phelan (I assume you know who she is) and Marla Streb (she was our neighbor at the time and helped him get his bike at a big discount). I've met and socialized with all the Marin mountain bike pioneers (and friends with a couple).

And in my opinion, it would be a "disaster" (my word I believe) if bikes are permitted in wilderness areas. It would completely change the experience for hikers. As a hiker who has been "run down" by illegal bikers in the Point Reyes wilderness, I have my personal experience to testify to that assertion. In the Sierra (the subject of this forum) it would be worse. That is why the people who wrote the Wilderness Act banned them.

cmon4day wrote:I see many of you have strong opinions regarding mtb's in the wilderness and that is your right. What I see is that your opinions are so strong that many of you can't see "the forest through the trees". Many of the stories here seem quite embellished. Such a "chicken little" attitude. As evidenced by the verbs and adjectives used to describe the story. Such as "careened" down the hill, had to "jump" out of the way, nearly "run" down, they are "rude" and are "bullies", it will be a "disaster", wilderness will be "degraded", bikes are a "menace", they ride with "total aggression", and even threatening with bodily harm by putting "trekking poles into the spokes". Many of you haven't ridden a mountain bike and so you really don't know what you are talking about. Give it a chance. The sky will not fall, the wilderness will go on, and we'll all get to enjoy our adventures. It's a great activity, very enjoyable, and would love to go on a wilderness bike packing trip on trails that were sanctioned by the managing agency.

I guess dismissing the experiences and concerns of everybody else is one way to go. Another way to go would be to acknowledge that hikers have legitimate reason for anger and distrust toward mountain bikers, and to think about how mountain bikers (yourself included) might change their behavior to address that. IMO, the latter would be more constructive approach. YMMV.

In any case, what's the downside of not allowing mountain bikes in the wilderness? Nobody is keeping you out; you're perfectly free to enjoy the wilderness as a hiker. If you love the wilderness more than you love mountain biking, you'll go anyway; and if you love mountain biking more than you love the wilderness, you don't belong in the wilderness.

I guess dismissing the experiences and concerns of everybody else is one way to go. Another way to go would be to acknowledge that hikers have legitimate reason for anger and distrust toward mountain bikers, and to think about how mountain bikers (yourself included) might change their behavior to address that. IMO, the latter would be more constructive approach. YMMV.

Totally agree.

What I see is, that hikers are a group already allowed into the wilderness, so the the impact on them and especially on the the wilderness needs to be examined with an open mind. The question to mountain bikers is, why should they be allowed into the wilderness, how will they address the concerns of their impact on the wilderness, and on the groups already allowed into the wilderness, this includes the concerns voiced here.
Dismissing one of these "allowed groups" negative experiences, is definitely not the way to get them to support your cause, but exactly the opposite.

I think the mindset of the people that like to get involved in these activities needs to be taken into account. Many of the mountain biking crowd that I have encountered seemed to be in it for the adrenaline or the "rush." They were going as fast as possible and even though the protocol was to yield for hikers, that has never been done, at least in my experience. That's not to say that all mt. bikers fall into this category, but many tend to ride for the thrill of it. Speed, baby!

Now I think your average backpacker/hiker is trying to escape a bit, to get on the trail, slow down and forget the stresses of our modern life and "commune with nature" a bit. The idea of someone coming along and creating stress in an environment that is expected to be as stress-free as possible, I would imagine rubs your average backpacker the wrong way. Again, this is a generalization, but I think it has some truth to it.

The conflict, as I see it, are two very different mindsets, wanting something very different from the same environment. Again, this is not to say that there might be people that don't have these respective views, but I can't ever see the two getting along very well, given their very different goals when wanting to go out into the wild spaces of our country.

Mountain biking in our current wilderness areas would definitely degrade the environment and the wilderness "experience" for those who travel by foot.

What about the inevitable high speed bike encounters with horses and mules? That could get ugly.

Picture the increased damage to the flora and fauna of a mountain ecosystem. Sad to even consider.

And how about the absolutely certain explosion of rescue efforts that would be necessary when they tumble off their wheeled vehicles.

Bad idea.

Speed is definitely an issue. In the Bay Area on multi-use trails there are generally 15 mph speed limits--which are routinely ignored. But even if they were observed, just imagine encountering a biker going 15 mph in the wilderness.