High Sierra Topix

I enjoy my WM Apachie, 15 degree bag. The bag weighs 2lb, with overfill. I have had it for over 6 years now. Now its my go to bag. You can't go wrong with a WM product.

markskor wrote:Never take the down bag out of its stuffsack unless you are inside the tent

On a cold morning the sleeping bag is often moist with condensation. I think it is better to take it out of the tent and dry it in sunshine. Or, if leaving before sun hits the camp, take it out ad let t dry at an early sunny stop.

TJ. What did you decide on?

I ended up with the WM Apache. The bag really served me well for 4 nights in Deso last week (report to follow). Thanks for all the good advice and lively discussion here! A VERY special thanks to Mav for his PM, but I had to make other arrangements.

Just a quick 2 cents for other s-bag buyers. Quilts save weight but you should add a hood and its weight to compare fairly. Also, quilts are not so great for restless sleepers or side sleepers (side sleepers have minimal contact with the ground and need a bag that drapes more to cover front and back.

Many people "love" their WM bags but don't list reasons or features why. WM does not get their bags EN temp. rated, although you can expect to need 20 oz. of 800+fill down to get a 15F rating (not 10F as WM lists for the Versalite). And WM hood design uses just a flat flap, it is not a sculpted hood that can be comfortably tightened to just a breathing hole when really cold. But they are well made and their zippers are the least prone to snagging (Mountain Hardware bags use undersized zippers and are the most prone).

Marmot makes similar quality to WM bags and have a more sculpted hood design, but they have chosen not to make R-side-zip bags (for L-handed people.)

And now there's is a choice of "dry down" to fill the bag - anyone have experience with dry down that is not employed in outdoor gear sales?

kkman wrote:Quilts save weight but you should add a hood and its weight to compare fairly. Also, quilts are not so great for restless sleepers or side sleepers (side sleepers have minimal contact with the ground and need a bag that drapes more to cover front and back.

I'm a side sleeper and use a ~1lb quilt. I just put on a balaclava and pull the quilt up to my ear. My quilt fastens at the top so that it wraps around my neck and shoulders very effectively. There is more air transfer when I roll at night in a quilt than in a fully zipped and cinched sleeping bag.

But how would you compare a quilt with a bag on paper? They're different. If I had a zippered, hooded sleeping bag, made with the same fabrics and quality of down as my quilt and with the same total weight, the sleeping bag would have less loft than the quilt. I don't know how to determine which of the two would be warmer without sleeping in them, do you?

If you are lucky the mfg. for bag and quilt will list inches of loft and that will allow direct comparison. But, as you mentioned, if you move around during the night a quilt will have more (cold) air transfer. Also you will have to decide if you need to add the weight of the balaclava to the quilt (since the balaclava gets double use during the day.)

The reason I am leaning toward a bag vrs. a quilt in my own choice to replace an old sleeping bag is that I move around a lot at night and because I am a side sleeper. A sleep system is warmest if there is a lot of loft and if the air space between the sleeper and the down is minimized (does not have to be heated by the sleeper's body). A side sleeper with sleeping pad looks like an upside down letter T, and the best way to conserve heat is if the side sleeper is covered with an upside down letter U (a sleeping bag) as opposed to an upside down letter V (a quilt that attaches to the 20" wide sleeping pad.) I learned the importance of minimizing air space between sleeper and insulation when I had to sleep in just clothes and a down jacket on several nights -- I slept surprisingly warm even with the reduced loft.

Long story short, loft and fit are probably important and it is worthwhile to try before buying.

kkman wrote:If you are lucky the mfg. for bag and quilt will list inches of loft and that will allow direct comparison. But, as you mentioned, if you move around during the night a quilt will have more (cold) air transfer. Also you will have to decide if you need to add the weight of the balaclava to the quilt (since the balaclava gets double use during the day.)

You can compare loft but there are other important differences between a given bag and quilt. I don't think a direct comparison is possible and trying them in advance is problematic as well. Many bags and quilts have to be ordered and return policies on used items varies.

I always have a warm hat or balaclava, even in the summer, even if I'm using a sleeping bag. So for me, and I suspect most people, this wouldn't be extra weight. On the other hand, I usually do not need the down hood of my sleeping bag in the summer time.

kkman wrote:A side sleeper with sleeping pad looks like an upside down letter T, and the best way to conserve heat is if the side sleeper is covered with an upside down letter U (a sleeping bag) as opposed to an upside down letter V (a quilt that attaches to the 20" wide sleeping pad.)

That's just theory. And not all quilts attach to the pad. Mine doesn't, it wraps around me pretty much like a sleeping bag but without a bottom half. Your mileage may vary.

if you want to argue quilt v. bag, start a new thread. the title of this thread is clear and he chose.

russ

What about a big agnes hybrid. Insulated on one side like a quilt but still a sleeping bag. They are light with tons of room.