High Sierra Topix

Hobbes wrote: Speaking of money, I don't get the effort @ (false) economizing. It's a 500 mile r/t for me just to get to Lone Pine, so that's $100 in gas right there for every trip. Whether the bag lasts 30 years or just 10 years, at $500, it's only costing you $50 per year. Amortized over just 10 nights, that's $5. A Big Mac costs that much.

I suppose that the "Economizing" all depends on how serious you are about backpacking. Some/many here only get out an average of 10 days per year...10 years is only 100 bag nights. Any decent bag bought today should last at least 100 nights. Hard to rationalize $500 or even $5/day just for a bag when you do not use it that much. Factor in the tent, pad, backpack, etc and you are essentially spending ~$20/day, not counting food or transportation to and from trail-heads...
Add in all expenses, for novice backpackers who do not get out much, a 10-day trip will cost you ~$500 each...Agreed, can get a bit pricey.

However, some (like me) average ~100 bag nights a year...easily , well-over 3,000 backpack nights, so far, and counting. A long time ago I figured out that I liked going solo, that good fishing means high altitude, and being cold sucked - bought a WM Apache. (Think it cost me ~$400 back in the '80s…big money!) From the very first night out I was always warm in it...not sort of warm. I never had to worry about drafts, or losing large quantities of feathers, or weight. I felt safe... toasty and proud. I honestly thought that bag would last forever…might have too but some basshole “borrowed” it out of my tent Camp 4…(never stay there again)…sigh…even at 12 years old, that bag was still worth taking…there were more than a few good years left in it.

Economizing at first…(kids etal), I bought a NF Cat’s something, and then a Marmot Helium…both good enough bags but really not the same. Spoiled, 14 years ago, bought my WM Badger (they must be making the Apache smaller now?) and again I was a happy camper.
Much like Longri above mentions, I realize that any bag really won’t last forever…but another 10 years seems likely.
Good equipment, if well-taken care of, lasts…Great equipment - even longer.

Hobbes wrote:Avoiding being either cold or wet is 90% of the game. Money spent reducing/eliminating these factors is a pittance compared to the value of your time.

+1

Very good points on the economics, Mark.

I think I'm finally at the point where my bags will last for a lifetime. This is partly due to the fact that my expected remaining lifetime isn't so long any more. But it's also because I am spoiled. I have four down bags all in excellent condition, plus my car camping bag which gets the brunt of abuse, and even an additional dedicated down bag (that's in pretty good condition but older technology) exclusively for draping over the cooler. Spoiled!

Longri,
Unfortunately, having two college-aged boys means a lot of my gear stash (read sleeping bags plus...) also left the nest. Thus I lost my dedicated "keep the cooler insulated" sleeping bag...(my cooler now cringes at the thought.)
Also lost two tents, a few backpacks, pads, stoves...headlamps still keep disappearing on holidays...(long-boarding son to blame there.)

But, being spoiled too, just managed to keep three bags...three packs, a few tents...just the bare necessities.
My secrets to maintaining a sleeping bag's longevity:
Never take the down bag out of its stuffsack unless you are inside the tent,
at home, let the bag live expanded...in its large cotton sack.
Bathe before bed and always wear clean socks at night,
Wash the bag as little as possible...every 5+ years or so.

I was right with you until the "bathe before bed" part.

and the "wear clean socks" part. I prefer to sleep sockless. enough sock during the day. lets the feet rehydrate, so to speak.

Longri wrote:

I was right with you until the "bathe before bed" part.

That's why a bag liner comes in handy.

Rlown wrote:

and the "wear clean socks" part. I prefer to sleep sockless. enough sock during the day. lets the feet rehydrate, so to speak.

Use a silver lined sock liner or other silk liner, it feel like nothings on your feet.

but, with nothing on my feet it already feels like there's nothing on my feet.

TJ, just buy one of the recommended bags. You won't be sorry other than dropping the dimes to do it. It might come in handy this winter at your ice fishing spot. That is if winter happens again.

maverick wrote:

Longri wrote:

I was right with you until the "bathe before bed" part.

That's why a bag liner comes in handy.

I was kind of joking. I always try to wash the dirt, salt and sunscreen off at the end of a day, in part to minimize dirt and oil penetration in the sleeping bag, in part because it feels better. And unless it's really warm at night I wear long johns and a dry pair of socks. So my clothes are my liner.

I just don't "bathe". I don't carry soap and I sure don't get into the cold water.

I find most degree ratings pretty flakey. I am a cold sleeper and I have had two bags that I use in the Sierra - a 0-degree and a 10-degree. Both are 750 down because that was about the best you could get when I bought the bags. One bag (Marmot Aguille) got stolen. I am now using a WM Super Antelope. I am not fond of their "draft collar" as I prefer a standard draft collar. I now have a 5 oz down sweater that I stuff around my neck that supplements the WM pseudo-draft collar.

Bags do wear out. That is not to say you cannot use them. They just gradually become less heat efficient. Even with heavy use a bag should last 10-15 years. When you say a "lifetime", well, I started backpacking at 16 and have been at it almost 50 years. Using a bag 50-100 nights a year for that many years, is more than what most consider a "lifetime". I think it has to do with the number of times the bag gets stuffed and how long it stays stuffed as well as normal wear and tear. I hesitate to wash a bag much. I washed the WM bag once (after 4 years use) and it did loft as new, but the loft is not staying as well as it did when original. Zippers can be replaced. If the bag is still good, and you do not sew, just take it to a seamstress. You can buy the proper zipper on the internet. And I think most manufacturers will also replace zippers. I think the reason most of us replace bags is that we want the much lighter new improved bags of today!

Fit is really important, particularly the hood-collar system. If I ever buy another bag, it will be a woman's bag. They did not have gender specific bags when I bought mine. My bag has too much shoulder room (drafty), too much of the down is upper body (we women need more hips and downward). No matter what you get, try it out before buying.

And no matter how many $$ you spend on a bag, it is all wasted if you do not also invest in a equally suitable insulating sleeping pad.

If you want something warm and light weight check out zpacks.com. I have their 30deg quilt and love it. It kept me warm these past couple of days up at 10,000+ in the Big Pine Creek backcountry.