High Sierra Topix

Amen

Gee. So what have we learned in this thread.

GPS users are fools who don't know their limitations.
GPS/SPOT users are fools who rely on pushing buttons to get out of trouble.
GPS users stare at a screen all day but really don't know where they are.

paleeeeeze

We did not generalize that all SPOT and GPS users are fools. That is something YOU read into our comments. We said that the best of both worlds is to become competant in both. For hundreds of years people have been navigating by map and compass. Those who are proficient can get by just fine without a GPS and can locate themselves on a map just as well. Having SPOT is like having a hiking buddy instead of going alone. Knowing you have a "back-up" be it companions or SPOT, the level of risk you take should be the same as if you are alone. SPOT only lets you signal that you are in distress- it does not guarentee speedy rescue. There are many like you who almost exclusively use GPS and also know how to use a map but prefer GPS. It is sort of like the debate about having kids use a calculator in school. You need to learn the basics without the calculator. Then you can use the calculator as a tool to help you do math more efficiently. You do not skip the basics.

A majority of GPS and SPOT users are not fools. But, believe me, I have seen a number of fools out there running around without a clue, GPS or SPOT in hand. GPS and SPOT are great tools, but no tool is a substitute for basic outdoor skills. They are a complement to those skills. All we old-timers are doing is encouraging GPS users to take some time and also become competent with map and compass and to learn the details of your GPS unit- not just follow the little arrow. Really understand the source of the basemaps that your GPS uses. Understand that some "trails" marked on maps and simply scanned in on GPS software are no longer maintained and for all practical purposes not there. Set the proper datum on the GPS.

Your GPS IS a "map", but one dependent on batteries, satallites, subject to break down and only as good as the software that comes with it. You are not going to have any better luck with a crappy resolution paper map than with a crappy resolution GPS map. And a half-baked GPS user is no better than a half-baked map and compass user (ie: did you know that a compass can be affected by the kind of rock under your feet?).

I have attached my back packers list for the high Sierra might help you in the process

ChinMusic wrote:Gee. So what have we learned in this thread.

GPS users are fools who don't know their limitations.
GPS/SPOT users are fools who rely on pushing buttons to get out of trouble.
GPS users stare at a screen all day but really don't know where they are.

paleeeeeze

What you should have read from what was said:

SOME PEOPLE don't know their limitations.
SOME PEOPLE rely on devices to their detriment.
SOME PEOPLE need more skill development.
It's best to not be one of SOME PEOPLE. Information and skill building are more important tools than electronics, because they are something you can carry with you everywhere, no matter what.

I make no judgments on whether you are "some people." You could have been someone trying to mock me or have fun at my expense, constantly pushing my buttons. What you would perhaps have not understood is that I don't care about that and saw an opportunity to provide information that others can learn from. Welcome to the internet, where your conversation happens in public. Whether you benefit from information others give you is entirely on you.

One of our SAR team's goals is preventative - we train Boy Scouts to use compasses, post advice to hikers at trailheads, and spread the word via presentations in various forums to always be aware of where you are, and how to know when you're in trouble. Information on the limitations of the equipment you have is an important thing to know.

ChinMusic wrote:

AlmostThere wrote:You need to google up the story of the 70-something backpacker with 60+ years of experience who died on Whitney in late 2009. They found his jacket, his shoes, his full backpack, and then found him, sitting dead on a rock. Also google up "paradoxical undressing."

And this has what to do with the price of beans?

"Paradoxical undressing" is a well-know phenomena. In simple terms he froze to death and in the late stages felt "hot". Prior to this being well known it was thought these cases involved criminal activity.

You are demonstrating the attitude that "I have my GPS and sat phone so I am going to be fine no matter what." That's a bad assumption. Those situations where you are mentally compromised somehow are situations where you will not be likely to take advantage of either object - and they are notoriously easy to fall into without noticing, which makes them a risk for solo hikers who have no one with them to notice their symptoms and intervene, which is entirely in context for the thread.

You want to keep the conversation going, I'm going to throw educational material into it until it dies.

and then there's lil' tidbit by Carne in "the campfire" on Solar flares affecting GPS, etc which peaks in 2013 at viewtopic.php?f=9&p=47077#p47077" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

AlmostThere wrote:

ChinMusic wrote: You are demonstrating the attitude that "I have my GPS and sat phone so I am going to be fine no matter what." That's a bad assumption.

I'll let you play with your straw man.

You could NOT be further from the truth, but I doubt you care.

ChinMusic wrote:

AlmostThere wrote:

ChinMusic wrote: You are demonstrating the attitude that "I have my GPS and sat phone so I am going to be fine no matter what." That's a bad assumption.

I'll let you play with your straw man.

You could NOT be further from the truth, but I doubt you care.

Shouldn't play around with people online. Sometimes they really don't.

Straw man, issue, concern, information. Rebrand it however it plays out in your world.

AlmostThere wrote: Rebrand it however it plays out in your world.

My world is not that of the luddite.