Hiking all the trails, Sierra?

Grab your bear can or camp chair, kick your feet up and chew the fat about anything Sierra Nevada related that doesn't quite fit in any of the other forums. Within reason, (and the HST rules and guidelines) this is also an anything goes forum. Tell stories, discuss wilderness issues, music, or whatever else the High Sierra stirs up in your mind.
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Wandering Daisy
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Re: Hiking all the trails, Sierra?

Post by Wandering Daisy »

Eiprahs. To me, it looks like Sara is simply doing what the Forest Service is supposed to do, but does not have the funding. There is value for one person, in a relatively short period of time, to inventory trails, with objective criteria. The big difference in a private citizen doing this vs. the government, is that there will be different and less "editing" or "peer review" of results. Putting all information out there for the public may not be entirely "good". The good thing about "editing" is that some information may do harm and some information should not be put out there.

There is also value in our forum, where everyone's different experience, and different opinions of trail conditions, more subjective, morph into a picture of the Sierra. I do not see the two as mutually exclusive.

My take on the younger generation, is that their impetus for going into the wilderness often is different. For one thing, the way parents now raise their kids, everything is planned out for them - risk and uncertainty is something to be avoided. Exploration of the unknown does not seem to be much in vogue these days. Extreme sports (trail running, light-and-fast thru hiking, somewhat competitive hard core hiking, and everything has to be a "big name" hike - bragging rights) are often the entry point. I doubt much communing with the wilderness is being done; the wilderness is more of a venue for sport-like activity. I am not against this, how could I be? I have spent most of my outdoor life mountaineering and rock climbing. That was my impetus to get into the wilderness. Only as I aged did I become more inclined to really appreciate my environment.

One big difference now is technology and the compulsion to be constantly connected to others and yes, "sharing" of that experience that borders narcissism. That part I do not like, but so be it. As a whole I think young people nowadays are much more "social". In my day, the wilderness was a place for those of use who were borderline antisocial- get away from people. Many of us were failures at team sports and wallflowers at parties, introverts. We walked into the wilderness, surrounded by quiet, and felt totally at home! I feel it is our duty as "old farts" to at least try to teach a bit of wilderness/environmental responsibility. And you cannot do that if you criticize or devalue their experiences.

Sara is doing her project. Because she posted here on this forum, we can hopefully have some impact by voicing our concerns about how she presents this data. She seems to be listening.
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longri
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Re: Hiking all the trails, Sierra?

Post by longri »

sparky wrote:I am reminded of the guy that took a selfie every mile on the PCT. While it made a pretty cool video, when you step back and think about it....its just weird and borderline narcissistic. It is just a strange road we are on here folks. Damn I am really sounding like an old fart right now. But whatever, the world turns, i wont lose any sleep over it either way, and I will continue to enjoy myself in the wilderness on my own terms
Borderline narcissistic?
It was a video of his face.

I'm not really sure what Sara is hoping to accomplish but it hardly seems like a singular threat to the wilderness.
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Re: Hiking all the trails, Sierra?

Post by oldranger »

Sara

My initial response was wtf! Reading all the responses I have decided that I admire your passion. Don't let naysayers get you down. Go for it! Even old farts like me who don't know he difference between a way point and a track will be following your work and be jealous that you are out on the trails as much as you will be. And I expect that we will learn something from your journey as will you.

Have a great time!

Mike
Mike

Who can't do everything he used to and what he can do takes a hell of a lot longer!
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markskor
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Re: Hiking all the trails, Sierra?

Post by markskor »

All trails Sierra? Never having had such a momentous plateful to even attempt to muddle through, I too look forward to seeing this all play out. I can only think back to my prior PCT attempt, a few years back...never got out of California, (made it about seven miles from the Oregon border.) There, at the Seiad Cafe, over pancakes, decided that never more would I be slave to any trail, ever again.

Our Sierra blesses us with lakes/ passes/ vistas just too amazing to walk on by...having to do 20+ trail miles each day just to stay on schedule, you miss a lot of the best, IMHO the very best. Unfortunately, you are self-limiting yourself to doing long miles and staying on trails only. Ah youth!

Thus good luck and God speed - your plan admirable - just not my trail-less Sierra.
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Wandering Daisy
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Re: Hiking all the trails, Sierra?

Post by Wandering Daisy »

Yeh, I am not much of a thru-hiker either. I probably would have become disillusioned well before the Oregon border if I were to try the PCT! I think some people just have an aptitude for it. 20 trail-miles a day really is not extreme. On a trail, even I, as an old fart, can average 2.5 mph and then add about half an hour for each 1000 feet elevation gain - that's 8 hours a day plus another hour for elevation gains (assuming 2000 feet a day average). I enjoy walking and look around all the time. I do not have my eyes glued to the trail! I am enjoying the mountains when I am walking. And I do prefer walking every day. At my age, not sure my body would hold up for 200 days of it though. But, let's face it, not ALL the Sierra trails are that wonderful or scenic. In fact probably 50% are just so-so. I think that when I was younger I could have done the miles, but I just do not have the patience to slog through the less interesting stuff. I pretty much "cherry pick" the good stuff and avoid the less scenic stuff.

My "project" is my guidebook to the Wind Rivers. Once one starts on this path, one gets sucked into some real "work" verifying the less interesting miles that simply are sometimes required to get to the good stuff. It is a trade-off for sure. But I keep my goal in mind, and I am sure Sara will too. That is not to say she will not have some darned boring miles to walk!
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Re: Hiking all the trails, Sierra?

Post by Vaca Russ »

zacjust32 wrote:...(no offense to all the old farts ;) ).
Zacjust32, I recommend you review Eric's advise:
ERIC wrote:..do your part to keep things civil... Best advice I can give is to state your case without personal attack...
In the future I would prefer you address me as a "Mature Intestinal Gaseous Expultion".

:D :wink: :nod:

Thanks,

-Russ
"...Or have you only comfort, and the lust for comfort, that stealthy thing that enters the house a guest, and then becomes a host and then a master?"

Kahil Gibran.
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sparky
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Re: Hiking all the trails, Sierra?

Post by sparky »

Good comments from everyone. I hope this HUGE project is a labor of love for you Sarah.
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Eiprahs
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Re: Hiking all the trails, Sierra?

Post by Eiprahs »

To Sara and Wandering Daisy:

Wandering Daisy, I agree with everything you say. My concern is that Sara is reinventing the wheel where she might realize her big picture goals more efficiently by showing how to access and use info already out there. Sara should be the Napster of Sierra hiking data, if you are familiar with the Napster story.

Sara, Wandering Daisy wrote the quintessential book on hiking Wyoming’s Wind River Range: Beyond Trails in the Wind River Mountains. While nominally a “book”, most of the publication was on an included CD, allowing computer access to the content. Wandering Daisy’s book also included sections on how to access info necessary to predict water crossing difficulty, snow depth by date, and other parameters that vary year to year.

So, Wandering Daisy, your book answered the questions I posed to Sara in spades. Your book presents information in a compelling fashion superior to the older Wind River Range guides. The most information dense guide book ever, all the info is pertinent, and links to useful external info sources are provided.

Sara, in my opinion, Wandering Daisy’s book is a great guide book well worth a look. It creatively presents a tremendous volume of info, provides the tools to ‘adjust’ for year to year differences, and allows easy electronic content sharing. The caveat, it is not for the first timer, but otherwise is a model for a guide book.

To shift gears somewhat, there is a tremendous amount of GPS track info available. I participate on a board, Oregonhikers.org, where, unlike HST, many active hikers routinely include their GPS tracks in their trip reports. One popular gps track posting site they use is gpsfly.org.

If you’ve used Google Map’s ‘satellite view’ or Google Earth you’ve probably noticed that the trail locations are getting more accurate as time goes by. Google is ‘mining’ that gps track data—that darn ‘Google Bot’ you see listed as an active user of HST—and using the aggregated data to refine their maps.

For the Sierras, where so many have done so much, it makes sense to take advantage of the resources in place—to link and aggregate—than to go all new from the ground. Maybe even contact Google to interface with their map people and access their compilation of GPS tracks.

Good luck Sara. May you do for the Sierras what Wandering Daisy has done for the Wind River Range!

My best to you both.
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Re: Hiking all the trails, Sierra?

Post by schmalz »

Code: Select all

www.kickstarter.com/projects/sierramappingproject/sierra-mapping-project
Last edited by ERIC on Fri May 08, 2015 9:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: Link removed. No reason to support this effort if they don't see a need to provide simple recognition of HST by way of reciprocal linking.
http://CaliTrails.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://facebook.com/calitrails" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Hiking all the trails, Sierra?

Post by rlown »

So, can I crowd fund my Sierra trips as well? I swear I'll GPS mark every spot were I see a Pika or a MYLF, and share the tracks. :nod:
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