October Backpacking

If you've been searching for the best source of information and stimulating discussion related to Spring/Summer/Fall backpacking, hiking and camping in the Sierra Nevada...look no further!
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Wandering Daisy
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Re: October Backpacking

Post by Wandering Daisy »

I would think one of the more difficult things with fall backpacking and scouts is that teens are not apt to enjoy hanging out in their sleeping bags inside the tent for 12 hours! I would definitely go where campfires are allowed and use this as an opportunity to teach proper campfire building and how to put them out. Also may be a good time in the evening to teach how to bake on a campfire- easy stuff like cinnamon rolls.

All out winter backpacking and fall backpacking are different. Winter backpacking is serious business and should be practiced in increments - first car camping to get the skills learned where you have an easy bail out if needed. Winter backpacking requires very specialized gear- special boots, etc.

By Fall backpacking I mean the typical shoulder season conditions - less daylight, colder nights, windy version of summer backpacking. The big difference is that IF a storm comes in it could either be a short event followed by nice Indian Summer conditions, or the actual start of winter (think Donner Party epic). In general the later in the fall, the more likely it becomes that a storm will be the start of winter. My strategy for Fall is not to take winter gear, but rather to add some layers, and plan the trip for quick bail-out if needed.

Great advise above for learning how to read the clouds and weather. Some research in historical dates of storms and start of winter in the Sierra is also useful to know.

SSSdave - what a great photo! I really enjoyed reading about your last year's fall adventure. My husband and I are planning on the "great eastern Sierra drive" after Oct 15, camping in our new trailer and day hiking. He is a CPA so cannot get away until after the 15th and I fear this year we may be too late for the peak of fall colors.
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Re: October Backpacking

Post by Ska-T »

SSSdave wrote:If one just thinks they need to bring along a book to amuse themselves in their tent during the long long dark hours...think again. After an hour holding a book and or poking arms and hands out to turn pages in 20F degree temps, your hands are going to get unpleasantly cold.
I like to bring my iPod nano loaded with an audio book. No pages to turn, no flashlight, no buttons to push except the on/off switch.

(Sort of off topic: I am planning to head out from South Lake on Thur or Fri. If anyone has any information about snow coverage from the last storm on passes like Thunderbolt & Knapsack related to the hazards of boulder hopping there please post your knowledge in the Conditions Section. Information about areas further south would be appreciated, too. Thanks.)
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Re: October Backpacking

Post by giantbrookie »

For right now I have not been going up in the fall for a few years (since about 2001), but when I did do backpacking in October (and sometimes into early November) in the Sierra, my criteria were somewhat similar to those listed above.

I aim for the lower elevations of the Sierra and destinations that aren't very deep into the backcountry from the trailhead. My Oct-Nov targets were primarily Desolation and northward in the Sierra. The longest trips were usually 3 days.

This would be the time to hit the fall turnover in the lakes. It is also the time of the year when brookies and browns spawn, so they get more aggressive. Accordingly fall has always been a prime time for going after big fish. The fall fishing was one big reason my wife and I would enjoy fall trips, but it was not the only one. The lack of mosquitoes is a big reason, as is the fall off in backcountry use after Labor Day, which is more important with the late season stuff because our targets are so much more accessible. Fall colors are nice, too.
Since my fishing (etc.) website is still down, you can be distracted by geology stuff at: http://www.fresnostate.edu/csm/ees/facu ... ayshi.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: October Backpacking

Post by Tom_H »

Once again, Ms. Daisy offers gems of wisdom. Thank you for proffering this timely and sage advice.

I will try not to repeat things already stated that I agree with. I will add:

1. It helps to understand the thermodynamics of various fabrics.

1-a. While cotton is o.k in the central and northern Sierra in summer, it is not a good fabric in the other three seasons. Cotton wicks at a constant gradient of moisture across a fabric cross-section. This allows it to conduct heat away from the body when moist. Wet cotton refrigerates the skin through a combination of conduction and evaporation; this is compounded greatly by convection if there is wind. Wool, silk, and modern synthetics draw most of the water to the outer face of the fabric, leaving the skin relatively dry and pockets of air within the fibers of the material close to the skin. This prevents heat from being conducted away from the body.

1-b Down is an excellent insulator if you can keep it dry. Shoulder seasons are not a good time to use down in any application. In winter, rain is unlikely. In summer, torrential downpours are unlikely and even if a summer bag gets wet, there are ways to survive the night. Shoulder seasons have the potential for great amounts of rain combined with cold. Drenched down is worthless for parkas and sleeping bags, unless you have the highest quality Gore-tex or similar lining. Even then, it is a risk.

1-c Layering principles are critical as temperatures can vary greatly. It is good to have light layers near the body and heavier and heavier layers of synthetic garments to go on top. Don't forget to keep the head and feet warm and dry.

1-d Boots with Gore-tex or snow-seal (on leather boots) help keep the feet dry if it gets wet. Daisy is correct: winter requires a different kind of boots.

2. Having a well developed trip plan that you leave with a couple of knowledgable and responsible parties is a good idea. Make sure to stick to the plan so that if SAR has to come looking, they are looking in the right place.

3. SPOT, sat-phone, GPS, etc. can be valuable assets if snow does come.

4. It helps to understand the signs of frostbite and hypothermia, how they work, how they affect the mind and body, and how to react at the earliest signs of them.

5. Remember that there is safety in numbers. In my own opinion, only the most experienced should consider soloing in the summer. In the winter, there are so many ways another person can keep you alive if something goes wrong. Soloing in the other three seasons is an activity with increased risk.

6. If you do encounter snow in an area where there was not previous snowpack, nordic skis are not the best idea. They will scrape the ground a lot and wax or fish scales either one will be quickly abraded away, allowing for no traction on the kick. You really need a base before using the skis. It is better to take small snowshoes with a set of teeth. If you get rain or a combination of rain with snow or sleet, followed by plunging temperatures, you could wind up walking on slick ice. Hiking on ice (not snowpack, but slick ice) is really no fun in regular hiking boots. For this reason, a small set of ice cleats can be valuable. Having snow baskets to clip on the hiking poles is also helpful.

7. Remember to take extra fuel for the stove. You will need it. While on this subject, remember that you can still dehydrate in the arid and rarified air. Stay hydrated with soup and warm to hot drinks if the temperatures require it.

8. Consider going to places you've been before in the summer. If it snows, you will at least have some memory of the landmarks, even if you can't see the trail. Also, places usually look starkly different in the shallower sunlight. Brisk wind and fall colors add to the drama. The difference in the way the place looks now compared to your summer memories can be really enjoyable.

9. Remember that the shoulder seasons do differ from each other in some ways. Spring can have the danger of very iffy snow bridges and a big rain storm can melt the snowpack, leading to dangerous flooding. Camping in ravines should be avoided in the spring. Fire can still be a danger in the fall if the ground is still dry. Falling temperatures lower the danger, but in an autumn following a summer like this one, in places left dry by the recent storm, there is still the potential for fire. Once the ground is wet, that danger is mostly gone.

Edit-adding # 10

10. Fall, winter, and spring are not the time to take up backpacking as a new hobby. One needs to learn all the basics during the time of year when you don't face the possibility of being buried under snow. Learn the basics during summer, then take it up a notch in another season after you already have something to build on.

Happy fall trails!
Last edited by Tom_H on Tue Sep 30, 2014 8:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: October Backpacking

Post by The hermit »

Great advice, thanks for opening this discussion, and to all who contributed!
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Re: October Backpacking

Post by oldranger »

Tom

Your reference to locators and someone else's in the past couple of weeks seems to imply that you make choices that you would otherwise not make if you did not have such a device. I think that is wrong. If you don't have the skill and confidence to undertake such a trip without one you should not go with one just because you assume the device will work and someone will come and bail you out. The only reason I carry a device is because my wife insists. It is never a factor in any decisions I make considering go or no go because of weather or choice of route. Either I am comfortable with a route or I change my route-- the spot locator is totally irrelevant.

Mike
Mike

Who can't do everything he used to and what he can do takes a hell of a lot longer!
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Re: October Backpacking

Post by Tom_H »

oldranger wrote:Tom

Your reference to locators and someone else's in the past couple of weeks seems to imply that you make choices that you would otherwise not make if you did not have such a device. I think that is wrong. If you don't have the skill and confidence to undertake such a trip without one you should not go with one just because you assume the device will work and someone will come and bail you out. The only reason I carry a device is because my wife insists. It is never a factor in any decisions I make considering go or no go because of weather or choice of route. Either I am comfortable with a route or I change my route-- the spot locator is totally irrelevant.

Mike
Mike, I completely agree with you. What I do not understand, however, is how you drew all that inference from this:
Tom_H wrote:3. SPOT, sat-phone, GPS, etc. can be valuable assets if snow does come.
Those things are simply tools. Tools that can make a difference in a life and death situation. I meant exactly what I said, no less, no more; they can be valuable assets. In my own opinion, it is very foolish to depend solely upon these things. Anyone who isn't able to backpack without them shouldn't be backpacking to begin with. One's own sense of direction, honed through years of finding his/her own way through the woods is infinitely more valuable. Knowing how to survive, knowing how to use map and compass, knowing how to determine direction by the sun and stars, all those are so much more important than relying on electronic tools that can fail. All that being said, being now in my 60s, if I were to go out when there is a possibility of snow, I would take electronic aids, simply because they are an additional backup safety feature. My wife just went through cancer surgery and fortunately, the cancer had not spread beyond the tumor. It really scared me though. She and I have a very close relationship and this made me realize how lost I would be if she were gone. I don't own any of those things, because I don't think I need them in the summer. I'm realistic about the toll age has taken on my body, however; I don't go solo any more and I don't winter backpack any more. But, if I did go out when snow was a real possibility, I wouldn't go without them, because she needs me just as much as I need her. So I would take them, just because I know I am not the athlete I used to be, and I know she wants me to come home to her.
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Re: October Backpacking

Post by sparky »

fall/spring/winter is for foothills, coastal, and desert backpacking. So many people are so focused on the sierra in the summer, the beauty that surrounds is just ignored.....which is good for people like us!

On topic, when I go out in the high country in Oct, my load is damn heavy :eek:

I love all the nighttime....because I love to sleep!
Fall, winter, and spring are not the time to take up backpacking as a new hobby. One needs to learn all the basics during the time of year when you don't face the possibility of being buried under snow. Learn the basics during summer, then take it up a notch in another season after you already have something to build on.
^^ not the time in the sierra that is.
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Re: October Backpacking

Post by Vaca Russ »

Ska-T wrote:I am planning to head out from South Lake on Thur or Fri. If anyone has any information about snow coverage from the last storm on passes like Thunderbolt & Knapsack related to the hazards of boulder hopping there ... Thanks.)
JB02xjq.jpg
"Got chased out of the high country by the prospect of more snow after waking up to several inches of it covering my tent. Decided to make the hike from 12,000' to the trailhead before the pass was completely impassable. Looked back the way I had come when I got to the parking lot and decided I made the right choice.

Photo taken by me (the author) looking back into Kings Canyon National Park along the Bishop Pass trail."

Story found here:

http://m.imgur.com/JB02xjq" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

OK, it is not Thunderbolt or Knapsack...but it is Bishop Pass. :nod:

Thanks,

-Russ
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Re: October Backpacking

Post by Tom_H »

sparky wrote:fall/spring/winter is for foothills, coastal, and desert backpacking. So many people are so focused on the sierra in the summer, the beauty that surrounds is just ignored.....which is good for people like us!

On topic, when I go out in the high country in Oct, my load is damn heavy :eek:

I love all the nighttime....because I love to sleep!
Fall, winter, and spring are not the time to take up backpacking as a new hobby. One needs to learn all the basics during the time of year when you don't face the possibility of being buried under snow. Learn the basics during summer, then take it up a notch in another season after you already have something to build on.
^^ not the time in the sierra that is.
Agree completely.
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